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Thread: Auction House Misrepresents Type 95 Shin Gunto.

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  1. #1
    Contributing Member IanS's Avatar
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    Auction House Misrepresents Type 95 Shin Gunto.

    I have put this up as a warning to those who are about to buy a Japaneseicon sword, mainly those buying one for the first time.

    Please please please, do some research first, there are forums out there with members who have years of experience, they are happy to steer novices in the right direction.

    Have a look at this auction house lot number 47.

    https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...a-b0a801264bff

    Best wishes,
    Ian.

    PS I'm happy to list the things that are wrong for anyone who needs to know. This is a Chinese fake.
    Last edited by IanS; 11-08-2023 at 08:50 AM. Reason: Added PS

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    Contributing Member Sapper740's Avatar
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    I know virtually nothing about Japaneseicon swords but this one screams 'fake' to me.

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  6. #3
    Contributing Member IanS's Avatar
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    Hi Sapper,

    it's a real mess, but somebody has paid £600 (GBP) for it. There is nothing of this sword that is worth anything, maybe scrap metal. I wrote to the auction house and told them it was a Chinese fake, they still called it Japaneseicon. You can't trust auction houses, well, not this one.
    Have you seen some of the commissions they charge? I've seen some close to 30% (including tax and online charge). I reckon some auction houses are making close to 50% with both seller's and buyer's commissions.

    Regards,
    Ian.

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    Legacy Member Salt Flat's Avatar
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    I also know very little about swords but that cast aluminum handle really looks fake and definitely does not look "period correct". Ian-could you fill us in on the other things you see that are wrong? Salt Flat

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    Contributing Member IanS's Avatar
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    Hi Salt Flat, only too happy to oblige.

    The Bo-hi or fuller(groove in blade) has a squarer section and different length compared to a genuine type 95. Probably cut by a grinding wheel, see the end of the fuller in the photo of the serial number.
    The tsuka(hilt) looks to have induced wear(rubbed down to look worn) or is just extremely badly cast and without a trace of paint.
    There is no habaki(wedge that holds sword tight in scabbard).
    There is no inspection stamp after the serial number. The serial number is the wrong font and in the wrong location, it should be between the fuller and the back edge of the blade.
    The tsuba(hand guard) is badly cast
    If it was genuine, and the serial number was correct, it would have been made at the Nagoya Arsenal early in the war. The serial numbers applied by the Nagoya Arsenal appear upside down when viewed with the sword edge down. They are the only arsenal to do this. I am told that the sarute(loop at end of hilt) is too long and the hanger on the scabbard is too far down.

    The sword has no value to a collector, perhaps scrap metal. I have now learnt two new indicators of a fake sword, they are the last two on the list. This sword is a disgrace and would put any buyer on guard even if they were not experienced collectors. They are getting harder to spot and I'm no expert.

    Best wishes,
    Ian

    PS I've written again to the auction house, telling them that I'm shocked to see they sold this sword as Japaneseicon after I told them it was Chinese. What's the betting they won't reply.
    Last edited by IanS; 11-09-2023 at 04:58 AM. Reason: added PS

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    Contributing Member Sapper740's Avatar
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    Unfortunately fakery abounds as the values for original milsurps climb. The other problem I've found with online sales is with accurate grading. I was looking at a P14 to add to my collection with a high price and glowing description of how rare it was to find these rifles in 'Fine' condition but a close look at the pictures of the rifle showed that it was somewhere between 'Poor' and 'Field' grade. I used the Contact the Seller option to explain to him what condition and why I thought the rifle was in. I received a response from the seller that he was going to sue me for libel if I contacted him again. He obviously has no understanding of what constitutes libel but I left him alone as it was obvious he had no interest in changing his auction's description.

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  12. #7
    Contributing Member IanS's Avatar
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    Hi Sapper,

    your comments ring so true. In the UKicon, I'm sure that auction houses, although selling for the owner, are required to accurately describe the item for sale otherwise it's misrepresentation. I must look up the legal position. It would be so nice to report these auction houses to a body that will take appropriate action, that would improve things!

    I looked again on the auction house website and found another Japaneseicon sword Type 98 in the same sale described as follows, "Very small chip on in the blade about 20 cm from the handle. You would really have to look to see it. It does not detract this from being a very nice collectors’ piece." The estimate was £1000 - £2000, didn't sell, I'm not surprised.

    Here's the link.
    Lot 5 | Cadmore Auctions

    Ian.
    Last edited by IanS; 11-09-2023 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Added estimate.

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    Legacy Member oldfoneguy's Avatar
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    Having spent several years in the used car business I liken on line auctions to that unsavory endeavor. The fact of the matter is, condition is subjective and in the eye of the beholder. ANY seller who's looking to make profit has the most beautiful pampered and barely used item that ever existed. I don't blame them in a sense but fact is fact and crooks abound. These are the very reasons I never have and never will buy a firearm sight unseen. Many that I know have and it's generally a 50-50 proposition. Remember boys and girls like all manner of things CAVEAT EMPTOR.

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  16. #9
    Contributing Member IanS's Avatar
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    Hello Bill,

    you're quite right, "let the buyer beware" has been around for a long long time and yet so many people get caught out. I checked out all my guns before I bought them.

    I've now passed my shotguns to my son as I haven't bothered to renew my ticket. My sniper rifle is currently for sale through my local Firearms dealer, I'm getting a bit past laying down on the deck.

    Ian.
    Last edited by IanS; 11-09-2023 at 02:24 PM.

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    Isn't there some rule/law that once the hammer falls at an auction there is no come-back? But how that may apply if an auction lot was found to be inappropriately described I don't know?

    Fools and their money are very quickly parted.

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