50/70 and sling

[drm2m]

Who knows Ray…it would have had to have been in 1917 or later.

I guess that is what makes certain guns particularly interesting when there is solid provenance that places a piece within a definite historical time frame and carried by a soldier that can be traced to certain events.

Some collectors only collect ‘unit marked’ guns together with period photos of the particular regiment in question……a very interesting collecting focus in my opinion.

All of our military guns have a history…..it is unfortunate that most of it remains unknown!


Jan Still very kindly did this historical write up on this regiment on his Forum just after I purchased the rig several years ago.


Historic- tradition information on the 122 Füsilier Regiment, from “Ruhmeshalle unsere alten Armee”. Listed are battles and dates as far back as Napoleon. This regiment’s honour name is “Kaiser Franz Josef von Österreich, König von Ungarn (4. Wurttembergisches) Nr. 122”. Its headquarters/base is Heilbronn (I & III) and Mergentheim (II) and it was founded in 1806.

Note: The percentage of national contingents in the German Army during World War I is as follows:
Prussia and the smaller states 78 percent
Bavaria 11 percent
Saxony 7 percent
Wurttemberg 4 percent
From “German WWI Identity Tags/Disks”, Peter Meinlschmidt, page 56.
Lugers unit marked to Wurttemberg Regiments are rare.

During World War I the 122 Füsilier Regiment was part of the 26th, 105th, and the 243rd Infantry Divisions. The LP08 discussed here in probably went into service with the 122 Füsilier Regiment sometime during August-September-October 1917. It spent the rest of 1917 and 1918 battling as part of the 243 Infantry Division on the Western Front. The issuing Regiment controlled and distributed these Lugers to the troops. The history of these Lugers is the same as that of the Regiment that issued them and the troops that carried them.


I added the ‘snail drum magazine’ (TM08) and magazine loader after I purchased the rig.

David

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

Just a quick note about an old soldier I've acquired. It's a 50/70 trapdoor Ser # 31854 (both breech and barrel), with an 1870 dated breechblock and a 1863 side plate. Overall condition is pretty good with a patina over most of the steel and a good stock with just a bit of the cartouche still visable.
The reason for the post is that the rifle has an interesting sling on it. The sling is stamped "Watervliet Arsenal" and a local collector told me that the sling may be worth more then the rifle.
Does this sound reasonable to you folks here? I believe the rifle is in nice shape and certainly is a good shooter. But now I am considering putting the sling up so it doesn't get damaged if it's that valuable.
Any thoughts? Thanks.

Art

EHS E.H. Schmitten, leather goods Rock Island Arsenal

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

drm2m
those knives are properly called "Riflemans Knives" Of course they were appropriated by other branches as well. There was a pic of artillerymen in camp in the Spanish American War and everyone of them was wearing the 1884 Riflemans knife.

[drm2m]

John,

Rayg has a photo of the following on the link to his collection shown above on page 1 of this thread.

The caption reads;

A model 1880 Hunting Knife. The knife has a wooden handle with a brass guard that is stamped US & Springfield, serial # 3476. It’s in a leather scabbard shown on my 1880 figure. The scabbard has a brass hook to attach it to the belt. The hook is stamped R.I.A.











It looks like my scabbard shown below which is also R.I.A. marked.


[IMG]





David

[rayg]

David, I believe the one with the leather loop is the 1st pattern scabbard for the knife. The 2nd pattern was made with the brass hook assembly. I'm not near my books so I can't look up the date of the change. Ray

[Louis of PA]

Just a quick note about an old soldier I've acquired. It's a 50/70 trapdoor Ser # 31854 (both breech and barrel), with an 1870 dated breechblock and a 1863 side plate. Art

Art - I have my grandfather's 50-70 with the very same markings on side plate and breech as yours. He taught his many children, boys AND girls, to shoot it and his Model 58 .44 cap & ball Remington, in their back yard in Philadelphia.

Most of the barrel, below the stock line, retains an unusually nice blue like I've never observed in other blued weapons. it's such subtle and unusual bluing, I've had trouble photographing it.

When new, these must have been extremely handsome rifles. Though I imagine they were buggers to keep up with the cleaning gear they had back in those days

Regards,

Louis of PA

P.S. A repro Sears catalog from the early 1900s, my grandfathers era, offers 50-70s at something around $3 to $5.00