03 and 03a3 barrels

[five 0]

Anybody notice CMP is selling Criterion barrels for 1903 and 1903A3?

Information

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[P. Greaney]

..Yes.

[John Beard]

Anybody notice CMP is selling Criterion barrels for 1903 and 1903A3?

The Criterion barrels are 4-groove and exceptionally well-made. The barrels are sold without sight bases. As far as I know, the '03 and '03-A3 barrels are identical, the only difference being that the '03 barrels are pre-machined to the proper outside diameter so that the '03 Rear Sight Fixed Base can be pressed on directly without modification. The barrels have an '03-A3-style front keyway, no spline. The barrels are sold without the front key.

After the sight bases are installed, the holes must be drilled for the sight base retaining pins. Just like in armory practice, the barrels are not pre-drilled.

The barrels have a charcoal parkerized finish. The barrels have no markings or date behind the front sight.

J.B.

[Dellvader]

JB - I noticed these @ CMP and have read they're good barrels, but had a question or two for you since you seem pretty knowledgeable...

In building a CMP legal rifle are these barrels really that much better than a new USGI (Remington) tube?

Additionally, since I'm not really "sight saavy", when you're talking about drilling sight base retaining pins, etc. you're only talking about '03s, right? I'm sloooooowly building an '03-a3 but beyond having the receiver face trued and the barrel screwed on, I wasn't looking to add other services (and $) to my 'smithing bill.

So then: for an '03-a3 Criterion they would just install the front sight as though it was original yes? No additional work ???

Thanks!

[Chuckindenver]

i have some comments, and questions..first. do the barrels being sold have the extractor cut, and the sight key cut? do they have the rear cut for the sight alingnment key, and if so what side? 11:00 or 2:00?
i have a new A3 barrel sitting here ready to go on a customers rifle, looks pretty nice and has the extactor and sight key cuts. dont know if he got it from CMP or else were, didnt ask.
looks ok,.but doubt it will shoot better then a GI Remington or SC barrel, iv had them shoot inside a dime, cant get much better then that with old iron sights.
question..
why whould you need to true the receiver face on an A3 unless its a recovered DP receiver, the replacement barrel should index right up, if your smith cant figure it out, find another smith.
this aint rocket science, chuck it up, line up the pretty little lines, and she,s done.
if its a new GI barrel , it will have to finish reamed, 15 min, job tops.
turning the receiver face, setting back the shoulder is nothing more then BS,a and a waist of your money.
if you have a barrel that over indexes., try another barrel..dont shim it, dont over build the wheel..keep it simple..if it aint broke. dont fix it!!

[John Beard]

JB - I noticed these @ CMP and have read they're good barrels, but had a question or two for you since you seem pretty knowledgeable...

In building a CMP legal rifle are these barrels really that much better than a new USGI (Remington) tube?

Additionally, since I'm not really "sight saavy", when you're talking about drilling sight base retaining pins, etc. you're only talking about '03s, right? I'm sloooooowly building an '03-a3 but beyond having the receiver face trued and the barrel screwed on, I wasn't looking to add other services (and $) to my 'smithing bill.

So then: for an '03-a3 Criterion they would just install the front sight as though it was original yes? No additional work ???

Thanks!

(1) I have not shot one of the Criterion barrels. I can make no statement regarding their accuracy or superiority to USGI barrels. I can only state that USGI '03 barrels are becoming very difficult to find and are expensive when found. The Criterion barrels offer a reasonable alternative if sight bases are available.

(2) Yes. The rear sight base pins pertain to preparing a barrel for installation on an '03. But, a front sight base pin must also be drilled on an '03-A3 barrel if a notched key is not available.

(3) Essentially yes. For an '03-A3 installation, one need only install the key and tap or press the front sight base down on the barrel. The key will need to be drilled or pre-notched for the retaining pin.

Hope this helps. Good Luck!

J.B.

[John Beard]

i have some comments, and questions..first. do the barrels being sold have the extractor cut, and the sight key cut? do they have the rear cut for the sight alingnment key, and if so what side? 11:00 or 2:00?
i have a new A3 barrel sitting here ready to go on a customers rifle, looks pretty nice and has the extactor and sight key cuts. dont know if he got it from CMP or else were, didnt ask.
looks ok,.but doubt it will shoot better then a GI Remington or SC barrel, iv had them shoot inside a dime, cant get much better then that with old iron sights.
question..
why whould you need to true the receiver face on an A3 unless its a recovered DP receiver, the replacement barrel should index right up, if your smith cant figure it out, find another smith.
this aint rocket science, chuck it up, line up the pretty little lines, and she,s done.
if its a new GI barrel , it will have to finish reamed, 15 min, job tops.
turning the receiver face, setting back the shoulder is nothing more then BS,a and a waist of your money.
if you have a barrel that over indexes., try another barrel..dont shim it, dont over build the wheel..keep it simple..if it aint broke. dont fix it!!

(1) Yes. The barrels have the extractor cut.

(2) Yes. The barrels have an '03-A3-style front sight key cut.

(3) No. The barrels have no cut for an '03 rear sight base "key". The "key" is actually a round pin. In armory practice, the rear sight fixed base was first pressed down on the barrel, then the hole for the pin was drilled, then the pin was installed in the hole. The Criterion barrels must be prepared the same exact way. I have successfully re-drilled existing holes and re-installed the pins.

(4) If the '03-A3 barrel you have has the usual USGI markings behind the front sight, then it is not one of the CMP Criterion barrels.

(5) I'll let Dellvader respond to your question about truing the receiver face.

J.B.

[Dellvader]

Chuck, JB - A big thanks to the pair of you!

I just shoot rifles, I don't build 'em so you'll have to excuse some of my ignorance - but that's exactly why I ask the questions (stupid as they may sound).

Krieger (and others) offer refacing of the receiver and bolt face so that the geometry's correct, perpendicular, etc. To my uneducated mind it seems on the surface as though it'd be a decent idea since the barrel's off and if you've gone through the expense of shipping, purchasing a new barrel, blah, blah, blah that'd be the best time to do it.

But it sounds like it'd be flushing $ down the drain. I'd rather spend cash on ammo.

Thanks!

(and thanks for explaining some of the nomenclature about the front sight/rear sight base)

[sdkrag]

Unless there is physical damage to the receiver there should be no reason to true it up. Thousands of barrells have been screwed on and off over the years and very little trueing is neccesary.

[Chuckindenver]

match facing, is a great thing..for a blueprinted receiver, example.
a 40X , Remington 700, Savage. ect, that will be used for target, sniper use, ect.
alot more will go into the proccess then just facing the receiver, bolt lap, truing, and matching the shoulder to the reciever, ect.
unless your going to go to Iraq or compete, its a waist of time and money..
heres the exeption with a 03 or A3 reciever.
if it is a recovered drill rifle, they weld the barrel to the reciever were the barrel and reciever meet,
this heat raises up the reciever face, and makes istalling a new barrel tough,
then and only then will i turn the face down, and only to true the flat surface.
if you have a barrel that over indexes the face, that is if it goes passed the witness marks, of beyond the 1/8 gap,
use another barrel, avoid shims, as they effect headspace, no matter how much you try and make this work, more work is needed to do it right.
FIND ANOTHER BARREL.
once again. if you have a smith that doesnt have a lot of experiance with military bolt action rifles, FIND ONE THAT DOES. chances are, he will cost you a lot of money to ruin your rifle.
i just repaired a 1903A4 that was screwed up by a smith that was lathe happy, and i personally know the smith, and yes, i gave him alllll kindsa BS over it.
he does great work on custom Remingtons, AR.s and pistols, but doesnt know how to keep it simple.
very common with guys with cool tools, they think the answer is to play with the toys, and over look the simple.
he couldnt get the witness lines to match up, so he turned the shoulder back on the barrel, untill it would line up,
still couldnt get it right, so he recut the breach face, and the extractor cut.
cost the customer over 300.00 to just get a barrel installed.
and took a week of work and screwing around to get it done.
and it still wouldnt shoot right.
i found another barrel, put it in my vise, and screwed it in tight..
total time? 45 min,s cost to the customer? 100.00 . and i testfired the gun.
and the barrel i provided is parkerized at the front sight area, and punch marked on the bottom side like an A4 should be.
barrel cost was 125.00, picked up off GB by him.
he hasnt shot the rifle at the range yet, but id bet it shoots in a dime at 100 yards.
as for removing and replacing barrels time after time on a NS receiver, id bet after a few times, the face would start to roll back. i doubt that it would be an issue with a heat treated 03.
i have seen some A3,s that were heavy wrench handed and buggered around the receiver ring, and bottom flat, if you did this too many times it would crush the receiver eventually.