Getting Neck Splits on new 7.62 NATO

[Danny]

I think I'm going to go with the electric screwdriver method since it's low cost (and I have one, and also the case driver from the Lee Trimmer) and that's more or less what the Hornady Kit is doing. I think I won't buy the Tempilaq since it would be kind of slow, I think and you guys only mention it for one who is unsure of himself. I'll first practice on the split cases to get my technique down. This presents a perfect time to get a Propane Torch which I've needed around the house for a while. I assume that propane alone should be good enough since a good quality candle was mentioned as a heat source?

When I was going over annealing in my head, I assumed that I'd need a device such as what I had seen in Guns and Ammo Magazine back in the 80s which was basically a device which held the cases and rotated them past a torch or two, so that the process was pretty well controlled.

It's a lot simpler than I had expected and at the most, I could lose some cases, but I might save a lot of them in exchange.

Danny

[MEHavey]

If you are talking this technique below...
June, 96 Cases

be aware that you'll have to dunk the case into the water while still attached to the shellholder/screwdriver as it'll be to hot to grasp and remove/dunk rapidly otherwise. But it'll do OK.

I'd still suggest the 475dgr tempilaq as it gives you an exact termination point independent of your eyes & ambient light conditions, and actually speeds things up (you don't heat as long)

[slamfire1]

Yes, it's actually pull down bought from Jeff Bartlett unfired. I wrote that late at night with a lot of things going on. Thanks for asking about the clarfication. It looks like I'll have to anneal....or trash the brass, which would be a sin now. Would it be too late to anneal the previously fired ones which upon inspection don't show any splitting?

Thanks for the help guys,

Danny

Here is an alternate, unwanted explanation:

Your pull down brass may have been weakened by the gasses released by deteriorating powder.

There is a tremendous amount of denial on this, but powder deteriorates.

When double based powders go bad they release nitric acid gas. This gas will cause corrosion and will attack brass. I don’t know how, but it does.

I had surplus 4895 go bad in the case and cause green corrosion on the base of bullets and case neck cracking. Case necks are more highly stressed than the other sections of the case, and it is thin. My guess that is why the necks crack.

I have been told the Army scrapped ammunition based on clock time. It is 20 years for double based powders and 45 years for single based. Your brass may have been laying loaded far longer than it was supposed to, before it was scrapped. There is the chance the powder in the cases was just starting to go bad.

The cases with split necks, toss them. Cases without split necks, anneal the stuff, do the rain dance, cast dark magic spells; if it helps, it is worth doing.

If it does not help: you are hosed.

[MEHavey]

>
> "...do the rain dance, cast dark magic spells..."
>

Actually, those are the two double-secret-burn-before-reading steps that only the single malt Illuminati have been privy to until this time. Consider yourself one of the In Crowd at this point, and charged to protect all further communications.

:-)

[Danny]

If you are talking this technique below...
June, 96 Cases

be aware that you'll have to dunk the case into the water while still attached to the shellholder/screwdriver as it'll be to hot to grasp and remove/dunk rapidly otherwise. But it'll do OK.

I'd still suggest the 475dgr tempilaq as it gives you an exact termination point independent of your eyes & ambient light conditions, and actually speeds things up (you don't heat as long)

Ok. I was trying to do a few things at once last night and for some reason had the idea of a cordless screwdriver in my head and not the cordless drill. I think I'd rather use the drill and drop the cases, but I could really use either method if I use the proper technique. I hadn't seen that article that you'd pasted a link for, so using the Lee case tool was just something that came to me. After reading all of the material over again I've decided to try to use the Tempilaq, however what do you make of the temperature listed in the 650/660 degree Fahrenheit range on the link vs. the Hornady Kit and what we've talked about here, which is at 475 degrees Fahrenheit?

As a side topic, I went today to buy a torch, which I needed for home anyway. I'd thought about buying one before but never got around to it. I was going to walk out with the Bernzomatic Fat Boy Map Gas Torch, one of the better kits, until I talked with the guy in that department. He suggested only getting the TS3000 Fat Boy Propane if I'm not going to be soldering a lot or doing big jobs. I got that, but maybe I should have gotten the Map Gas Torch. With the Map Gas, it seems that you can use either propane or Map, but with the TS3000 Propane Torch, you can't use Map Gas. Have any of you bought any of these torches and went with the Map Gas Version? Can you recommend it? I'd only be using the torch for the usual water line soldering and for the annealing jobs which we talk about here.

Thanks for the help,

Danny

[MEHavey]

>
> however what do you make of the temperature listed in the 650/660
> degree Fahrenheit range on the link vs. the Hornady Kit and what we've
> talked about here, which is at 475 degrees Fahrenheit?
>

With the speed that the propane/MAP torch heats the neck shoulder, that 475 degrees take into account what the *case body* will be heating to when the neck area is at a much higher temperature (`cause that's where the flame is.)

Take a look at the cases below to see where the annealing color change starts (about an 1/8" below the shoulder) when the 475 dgr tempilaq is lightly brushed on a 1/4" below that shoulder. The neck/shoulder was perfectly heated and the annealing only extended that far past that point. You will see that exactness on every case using the tempilaq indicator

[Danny]

Thanks for the pictures and the information. The cases look quite good. I'm now anxious to save this brass which I thought would be trash.

Danny

>
> however what do you make of the temperature listed in the 650/660
> degree Fahrenheit range on the link vs. the Hornady Kit and what we've
> talked about here, which is at 475 degrees Fahrenheit?
>

With the speed that the propane/MAP torch heats the neck shoulder, that 475 degrees take into account what the *case body* will be heating to when the neck area is at a much higher temperature (`cause that's where the flame is.)

Take a look at the cases below to see where the annealing color change starts (about an 1/8" below the shoulder) when the 475 dgr tempilaq is lightly brushed on a 1/4" below that shoulder. The neck/shoulder was perfectly heated and the annealing only extended that far past that point. You will see that exactness on every case using the tempilaq indicator

[MEHavey]

FWIW: These were 6x fired cases that I'd originally bought back in `91 and just recently pulled outta the cabinet to begin working up loads after a barrel change. At the time I was using RCBS standard dies and the expander ball was a bear to get back out unless I'd heavily brushed/cleaned the mouths with motor-mica. Even then the doggoned thing "squeeked" upon withdrawl -- which should have told me right then that the neck had fire/work-hardened.

So after 6th firing and neck splits (2 outta ten), I bit the bullet and got the Tempilaq (and their case holders) from Hornaday to do what you see above on the remaining 70+ cases.

They're now on their 10th firing, and I'll anneal again after the next cycle to (apparently) just keep going. (Primer pockets good and very little stretch since I now use Redding neck/bushing dies.)

Having used this on other cases where I still use RCBS expander balls (e.g., M1, etc) the necks are dramatically easier to expand without complaining as the brass is no longer over-brittle/stiff.

Other folks may prefer to pitch the brass after necks split and that's an easily defendable decision. But old cases are like old friends to me -- take care of them an they'll take care of me long after others have hit the recycle bin.

[Danny]

Well,
I got my 475 F Tempilaq today but didn't have a chance to try it and it might be till the weekend, or later until I get to try it.

I once had a batch of IMI .308/7.62 Brass that caused difficulties in sizing. It was brand new brass. The darn brass, though new, would grab on the Lee Die expander, galling the case up and leaving brass "pickup" on the expander. No amount of polishing the expander completely stopped this. The critical thing seemed to be that the necks inside were a bit rough and responded well to a lot of neck brush scrubbing and lubing. Even then reliable sizing in the neck area wasn't guaranteed.

I'll give a report once I try the annealing, but it might be a bit because I have vacation soon.

Danny

FWIW: These were 6x fired cases that I'd originally bought back in `91 and just recently pulled outta the cabinet to begin working up loads after a barrel change. At the time I was using RCBS standard dies and the expander ball was a bear to get back out unless I'd heavily brushed/cleaned the mouths with motor-mica. Even then the doggoned thing "squeeked" upon withdrawl -- which should have told me right then that the neck had fire/work-hardened.

So after 6th firing and neck splits (2 outta ten), I bit the bullet and got the Tempilaq (and their case holders) from Hornaday to do what you see above on the remaining 70+ cases.

They're now on their 10th firing, and I'll anneal again after the next cycle to (apparently) just keep going. (Primer pockets good and very little stretch since I now use Redding neck/bushing dies.)

Having used this on other cases where I still use RCBS expander balls (e.g., M1, etc) the necks are dramatically easier to expand without complaining as the brass is no longer over-brittle/stiff.

Other folks may prefer to pitch the brass after necks split and that's an easily defendable decision. But old cases are like old friends to me -- take care of them an they'll take care of me long after others have hit the recycle bin.

[Danny]

Ok guys, here is my first attempt at neck annealing. What's the assesment? That Tempilaq is annoying though. It dries and clumps up very quickly.

Danny