Hats, headgear, cover, whatever you call them, I've got a question

[Louis of PA]

I''ve seen illustrations of U.S. Army uniforms including hats from the post-Civil War era. Some show wide-brimmed hats with one side folded up against the crown, like current day? Australian style, and probably secured with a snap.

My question is this: Did the Aussies copy that style from us or did we copy it from them? Do the Aussies still wear them?

I've always thought it looked very cool.

Regards,
Louis of PA

Information

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[Fredtheobviouspseudonym]

IIRC I've seen paintings from Europe in the seventeenth century showing similar patterns.

I'd guess the hat-fabric of the day wasn't exactly waterproof -- come rain it would droop. If you fold up one side at least the front brim won't droop in your eyes. Also it makes a fine place to fasten a feather for that "wow the ladies" look.

[jimmybob9]

Stolen from the Australian War Memorial web page for info:

The khaki hat, first adopted into Australian military service in 1885 when it was chosen for the newly-formed Victorian Mounted Rifles, featured a high-domed crown and a narrow brim. The brim was turned up on the right side (for saluting purposes) The colony of New South Wales adopted a felt hat for its mounted troops. In 1890, local military commandants agreed that all their forces, except the artillery (who wore helmets), should adopt a felt hat. This hat was worn with an indented crown, looped up on the left side and decorated with plumage.The hat was first worn overseas in the South African War.

The Defence Act of 1903 combined the former colonial defence forces into a single Australian army. The hat was now universally turned–up on the left hand side. The most well known of various new embelishments was the emu feather plume worn by the Light Horse.

Further standardisation and changes to embellishments occurred from time to time, with the raising of the 1st AIF in 1914, the reorganisation in 1922 of the Australian Military Forces and the introduction of the voluntary militia force in 1930, 1939 and in postwar years.

Only the Australian Army wears slouch hats today no other arm of the services does.

[Louis of PA]

I'm still in the dark; those illustrations of U.S. Troopers with such hats, with folded up brim, were from that same time period, so I can't tell whether we copied the idea from them, or they from us.

Regards,

Louis of PA

[Viclav]

They didn't copy it from the Australians. They were trying to ape the style of Napoleonic cocked hats, which they thought very fashionable at the time, just as many Civil War soldiers punched up their brims to recall the Revolutionary War tricorns of their forefathers. No snaps would have been involved... either tacked or pinned (unless wet-forming was involved... I'm not up on the exact method.)

Victor

[sdkrag]

The style hat that you see in the pictures I believe was the 1874 issue model. it was greatly disliked by the troops and discontinued after a short time. Like any equipment on the frontier it took years for them to go away.

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

Called a Hardee hat.
Later replaced by the "Witch hat" a black campaign had that allowed the brim to be hooked to the crown. Poorely made since if caught in the rain you could wind up wearing the brim like a collar! Then replaced by another black hat which is correct for the Indian War period, and much much later by the tan campaign hat which hollywierd seemed to equip everyone with but didn't come in until the end of that period.
Then I always wondered why there were no privates in hollywood movies since everyone was wearing NCO trouser stripes!
Yellow suspenders? Bull pucky, pants were tailored to fit and even when suspenders came in very late in the period, they sure as heck were NOT yellow!!!!! Same goes for the yellow neckerchiefs. Any colour was worn, depending on what the sutler had in stock.

Now did you ever wonder why the movies show guard mountings in campaign dress, when full dress used tunics, and Spiked or Plumed helmets resembling the Prussian style? And that was true even on the "frontier." In fact an inspection report in the llate 1870's wrote up a couple of soldiers for not having regimental numbers on their spiked helmets!

Last of all, rank insignia was NOT worn on campaign shirts. The army was small enough that you damm well knew who your NCO's were!
Add to that brass insignis was not worn in the field on campaign hats. Why provide a shiney target for the apaches, who unlike the plains Indians were very good marksmen.

One last bit. Garrison dress was a five button blouse with rank chevrons and kepi, NOT campaign dress.

Still more. Stable dress was brown canvas tunic and pants. When the Rough Riders, were formed there was not enough blue uniforms to go round so they were issued stable dress. Something which proved far more useful than BLUE WOOL in Cuba, and a lot cooler.

[rayg]

One brim was hooked up on the Hardee hat with a brass eagle plate. Right side for cavalry and left for Inf.

The 1872 hat followed the Hardee hat and was designed for both the brims could be hooked up at the same time. It had a very wide brim that drooped when wet. It was not popular and was replaced by the 1876 model which was a more conventional campaign style. It had small dime sized brass air vents on each side of the crown. As John said, the hats were black. In 1885 the 1876 hat was replaced with a hat that instead of the brass vents had a bunch of holes punched in the crown more or less in the shape/pattern of a snow flake and the color was changed to tan. In 1899 a larger screen air vent replaced the punched holes and then in 1902 the vent was replaced again with the punched holes but this time in a five star pattern.
Here is a group photo of the hats I have. 1885's 1899's, and 1902's. You can see the larger metal vent on the top left one. Ray

[lboos]

Ray,
A great hat collection, I would be very happy with just one, i've been looking for one for the last three years, But the few i've found are out of my price range. Thanks For the history lesson on Cavalry hat's, And for showing them to us.