Is this SG M1 Carbine Stock Authentic?

[rcmauser]

Need some advice on authenticity and value of this stock. This was a comparatively cheap ebay pick-up. So if not authentic, then no big deal. Just a shooter stock. The pictures are what I bot out of the box. There is still some tape adhesive around the cartouches...

If real, I will seriously consider professional fix of the recoil plate area (the chip appears old, the pictures make it stand out more. Could this be a stock that was sent to reject pile and eventually stashed away or just a new manufactured copy? Looks too good!
If a copy, they did their homework.

Please provide reasons for your opinion, as I am trying expand my knowledge of what to look for. If you have a fake like this, please post pics. If a reproduction, has to be more than one out there.

The cartouches appear to be correct, the stock appears never used military new and metal does not appear to have been put on the furniture. However, no “P” cartouche is present (could it be because of the small chip near the recoil plate and this was sent to the reject pile). If a fake/reproduction should of at least had a “P” stamped on it.

I used the following reference books for my evaluation:
Reisch’s book U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production, 2007 edition
Ruth’s book WAR BABY!, 2006 edition

Here is what I know: It is a Rock-Ola supplied High wood carbine stock, with a chip out in the recoil plate area. The recoil plate area behind the receiver has a horse shoe cutout is this style consistent with the Rock-Ola stock?

- SG and Cross cannon cartouches match Reisch’s book, page 123, fig 4-8L and Ruth’s book, page, 315, fig 324, center row far right cannon cartouche.

- RSG/105B (Rock-Ola) stamped in sling cut out area MOSTLY matches description in Ruth’s book, page 435, Stock Group, sub-heading Stock, Type A, Variation 4 (in use during late production). Page 289, bottom of page describes Variation 4 as being a Low wood M1 carbine stock.
This is a discrepancy with high wood stock I have.

Is it possible that some High wood Rock-Ola contract stocks made it out with the RSG/105B stamp (i.e. transition period)??

Thanks in advance for your help. Let me know if you need more pictures.
This is my first post here...so let me know it you can't see the pics or access the photobucket link. I might have to adjust something...

extra pics on photobucket
Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Bruce McAskill]

If your stock was a replacement stock it would not have the acceptance stamp and the crossed cannons on it. It was on a carbine at one time and may have been damaged when it was first used and the stock changed out. If you look close you can see where the recoil plate and the receiver sat in the stock. Rock-Ola was the last to stop using the high wood stocks so even though yours is marked as a low wood it could be correct. It is worth restoring the stock if possible as any high wood stock is on the rare side now. hth

[rcmauser]

Thanks for the info and your time Bruce!... On closer examination I can see faint scares from a recoil nut in hole on the bottom of the stock. The receiver recoil marks must be faint to my untrained eye.... So It was used very little. I am going to have it repaired.

I am guessing it is at least a $100 stock, so worth saving...

Do you know how the contract stocks were configured when they left the Rock-Ola factory and were transfered to SG. Did they have the recoil nut, recoil plate, front band spring and butt plate installed? Or was that expense left up to the finishing manufacturer to supply those parts to complete the stock?


More stock pictures on photobucket

[BrianQ]

The R in RSG does not stand for Rock-Ola it stands for Robert Irwin. You might want to compare your stock markings to a known original. I'm sure the differences will pop out at you once you do.

[rcmauser]

The R in RSG does not stand for Rock-Ola it stands for Robert Irwin. You might want to compare your stock markings to a known original. I'm sure the differences will pop out at you once you do.

BrianQ,

Thanks for reply. I have a few questions as your reply did not provide sources for me to research.... I will do more research...

My main concern is if the stock is authentic. Maker is not as important as authenticity at this moment...

What does "I'm sure the differences will pop out at you" mean? Do you think the stock is authentic or maybe not? Either way please provide reasons... I am trying to get learned up on some of cartouches... and if my resources are lacking I need to expand them. I realize these reference books can and do contain a certain amount of inacuacies...


It is interesting Ruth's book equates RSG to Rock-Ola. So I assumed (I know ) that all RSG were Rock-Ola. I understand that Rock-Ola made a lot of contract stocks.

Does anyone have an example that matches these codes and/or a known original and can post some pictures?


A quick internet search found only a couple references to RSG and Robert Irwin and neither provided details of information for sources... The search tool on this board does not work for me... So who know if the answer in the depths of the forums knowledge base...

Only states "R in RSG stands for Robert Irwin Company not Rock-Ola."
http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic...TOPIC_ID=45760

Discusses the difficulties in ID'ing SG stocks
m1 saginaw


Post here indicates IR = Robert Irwin
http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic...=69217&#419318



Is it that RSG by itself is Rock-Ola and RSG with a number (RSG/105B or RSG/88F) is Robert Irwin?


Does that mean that Ruth's War Baby book is wrong with equating RSG code to Rock-Ola?

Can someone point me to a source of codes other than the Ruth's War Baby that cover manufacturer codes?

[ScottR]

Both the SG stamp and cross cannons do not match originals, the CC is a exact match to the one in Harrisons book.
As you noted the carbine books do have errors.
Lots of fakes on Ebay and other sites, I am sure you have seen the reproduction stock stamps on Ebay. I can not comment on the slingwell stamp.

Scott

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Just an opinion, but it seems that someone must have applied the fake stamps on one of the new reproduction stocks to me. It's a shame there are so many crooks praying on ebay these days.