drill receivers unsafe to build?

[Chuckindenver]

i have no problem with the ethics, as they cant be hidden from ever being a drill rifle.
more work then its worth do remove the stainless weld, i can spot even the best redo.
personally i have had hundreds of A3,s in my hands, and have yet to see a cracked receiver edge, same for a 1917, not saying that they didnt happen, i have yet to see one.
and have yet to see a recovered A3, even one done poorly fail, not that they wont, just havnt seen one, not even pictures.
would like to see one if somo one has pics.
i personally own and shoot recovered drill rifles, and one in 338-06 imp. and another in .35Wh, imp.
not one issue as of yet.
and iv sold recovered drill rifles and advertised them as such, and went over what they were, and how i repaired them, and most buyers were ok with what they were, if not,i have nonDP rifles available for more money.
we cant control what anyone does with anything, as its buyer beware, just educate yourself, and know what to look for, and dont blame anyone but yourself when you buy something without doing the research.
on the old Jouster, i posted pictures on how to spot a receovered DP reciever.
if i have time. ill post them a again.

[Chuckindenver]

sorry, any A3 receivers i have are built into rifles.
i may have one thats been drilled and tapped, but even those are getting tough anymore.
why not just finish what you have, and be happy...?

[lovemymilsurps]

Being I Mechanical Enginneer, but not a metalurgist, I have had enough education on metalurgy to never trust a drill rifle. The heating during welding and cutting was uncontrolled and the cooling was uncontrolled. There is no way to say with certainty that they are safe. If one started growing headspace as it was fired I would suspect the locking surfaces got soft not that the receiver is stretching. This is the same issue that the National Ordnance receivers seem to have. Such a receiver is dangerous as excess headspace will lead to head seperations. The O3 drill rifles were welded on a lot what with the cuttoff and the barrel being welded then the barrel had a plug stuck in it and was torch cut on the bottom. I just do not think it is worth it since unmessed with 03s are not really that expensive and are much more likely to be safe. Now as to shortening an action I would say any good gunsmith who does that takes lots of precations that the locking surfaces do not get hot. On a drill rifle I bet a lot of nice red hot or hotter receivers rings did occur. Numrich used to make a .22 conversion kit for the 03. If you could find one of those I think you woudl be just fine shooting as many .22s as you wanted in a reactivaed drill rifle. Also let me say that if I were a gunsmith which I am not, I would not restore a rifle for a customer knowing that it was sold as unsafe. Only takes one blow up to put you out of buisness. I have some of the CMP MA unplugged drill rifles as well and would not consider firing them either though they have had a lot less welding done on them. My expectation on them is that with repeated use the receiver ring will crack at the weld. I do not think they got hot enough to ruin the heat treat on the lug seats but I am not sure some may have. The 03 and 03A3 receivers will probably eventually crack at the weld point on the receiver as well. So use at your own risk. FWIW I have sold nice unmessed with 03A3 receivers as recently as this year for $110. I have gotten more for them as well but they are around if you look.

yeah, i sent the action back and got store credit, i'll probably pick up a few mosins. please let me know if you got an extra receiver for sale

[Chuckindenver]

one last thing to ponder.
drilling 2 holes, does more to the strength the welding the edge of the receiver face.
as they need to be annealed before drilling, both SHT, DHT, and nickel steel receivers have been Drilled and tapped over the last 100 years.
and some done by the factory, and the military..
the cuttoff only has to do with the function of the bolt, and not the safety of the receiver.
as for welding, i personally have seen and held a 1903 that was cut in 2, shortened and welded back together and chambered in .45 ACP. said rifle is still around, and shot all the time by the gunsmith that built it.
for the record.
i am by no means telling anyone to restore or recover a Drill rifle, only that, as usual, we are over thinking this, and jumping to conclusions..
not enough {facts} are in on the safety of a recovered A3 drill rifle.
but that i have done so, without an issue. other then the moral issue of being BS,s by a customer, and that and only that is the reason i wont work on Drill rifles.

[lovemymilsurps]

sorry, any A3 receivers i have are built into rifles.
i may have one thats been drilled and tapped, but even those are getting tough anymore.
why not just finish what you have, and be happy...?

i dont want to push my luck

[DRB]

I guess I would disagree on the "drilling 2 holes, does more to the strength the welding the edge of the receiver face.
as they need to be annealed before drilling, both SHT, DHT, and nickel steel receivers have been Drilled and tapped over the last 100 years". If they are done correctly a spot anneal is confined to a very small spot and the metal never melts. If done correctly the only spot affected will be right at the contact of the flame. Now if the guy does not know what he is doing he could easily ruin the gun. BTW you can grind a small spot before drilling to get through the hard surface on the SHT and it helps on the others as well instead of spot annealing. I have seen many drilled and tapped without annealing. Welding melts the metal that is a lot hotter then a spot anneal which should just get a small read spot. Cutting a receiver in two and welding it back is okay as long as the receiver ring is kept cool. The lug ways carry no load unless the safety lug is contacting the receiver.

[Chuckindenver]

i guess, id say, go and drill a A3 receiver,and see how far the heat treat goes through.
youll be suprised.
see, i do this all the time, i also repair holes drilled in them as well.
have yet to see one fail do to holes, welds, ect...
kinda like the sky is falling the sky is falling..
drill a hole, in a 1 inch, by 6 inch by 7/8 thick length of steel, heat treated or not,
place it in a vise with the hole above the jaws,
bend it with a pair of pliers, were does the steel bend, and likely crack and split....the hole...
take another length of steel, same dems, weld on the outer edge of the steel,
place it in the vise with the weld above the jaws, bend it as well, what happens???
it just bends, doesnt crack at the weld, likely it will bend above or below the weld.
for the receord, iv yet to {grind} any rifle before its drilled and tapped, i have spot annealed, and all it does it help the drill start.
likely A4,s like the early Garand C,s were drilled before the heat treat procceess.

[slamfire1]

A recovered DR receiver likely will not blow up - it will stretch. I converted two Remington A3 DRs at the same time. Both had minimal welds - about .125" wide by .6" long & no discoloration to the metal. Both old barrels came off easily & the reciver faces dressed up fine. Both got new barrels, bolts, cut offs & other parts. Both barrels screwed on & tightened up just fine, like on a ordinary (non DR) receiver. During assembly, everything was completely normal. Both headspaced perfectly. After 200 rounds, I checked headspace again. One was fine but the bolt on the second closed on a No Go gauge. Thinking I'd made a mistake, I swapped bolts & found one that would headspace OK. 20 Rounds later, that bolt also closed on a No Go gauge. Off came the barrel & the receiver now makes a nice paper weight! I'd say don't chance it. Who knows where it will be in 50 years & whose grandson may fire it.

It is highly likely that the welder used an acetylene torch in one hand and and held the weld material in the other . This is a very old way to weld. Without a doubt the front end of your receiver was heated hot enough to remove the heat treatment.

You did the correct thing though, in monitoring the headspace on your rifle as you shot it. This is what I did with one DP A3 receiver. I screwed on a so-so barrel, have shot the rifle at least 100 times, maybe more, and the headspace has not changed. So I think my receiver is safe.

Short of having it Rockwell tested, this is good enough for me.

[Chuckindenver]

they used a {stick} welder, with stainless steel rod, cheap, easy and fast.
and A3,s are hardened through and through, not just on the surface.
drill a hole through one once and you will see, that bit will cry all the way through, and you may even see sparks.
so spot annealing wont help, it might make it worse.
seems SC receivers are a bit harder then Remingtons..why? have no idea.
i just d&T a SC, took me 4 carbide drills, and had to use a mill, as my Drill press wouldnt do the job.

[slamfire1]

A3,s are hardened through and through, not just on the surface..

Which is exactly what you want. Unlike the shallow and erratic hardening depths of the low carbon steels used in the single heat treat and double heat treat receivers, alloy steels will consistantly harden all the way through the metal.

8600 steels were called "National Emergency" (NE) steels at the time. Using a tiny amount of expensive and strategic Nickel, Chromium, and Manganese, they were able to raise the tensile strength by 20% compared to carbon steels. Plus these alloys heat treated evenly and through the material.

seems SC receivers are a bit harder then Remingtons..why? have no idea.

Probably in the heat treat, or the carburization. I know the case depth on Garand receivers is real deep. They must have left those things in the gas furnances for a long time.