Pardon Graner and the others

[jon_norstog]

I guess most of us remember the Abu Ghraib scandal, and how quick the Army was to identify the "bad apples" who had done all those bad things to the prisoners in their charge.

At the time their defense was they were just carrying out directives from above. The CM didn't go for their defense, there were seven or eight soldiers, mostly reservists IIRC, who were sent up and got dishonorable discharges. The only one still in jail is Cpl. Charles Graner.

It is all out in the open now. The orders came from the highest level. The President has indicated he is not going to prosecute the high-level officials responsible. The CIA interrogators have all been promised immunity, Graner's superiors are all at liberty and have mostly been promoted.

So hey,maybe we should make it right to the men and women who were made scapegoats? And give Cpl. Graner his freedom, back pay and at least a general discharge.

jn

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[RED]

There is a huge difference between what was going on at Gitmo and what happened in Abu Gharib. On one hand you had serious men trying to save lives by getting as much information as possible. On the other hand, at Abu Gharib, it was just a bunch of out of control jerks doing bad things for the fun of it.

[0311Shooter]

Exactly. Abu Grabu was a bunch of drunk soldiers partying and having fun with prisoners. It was akin to college fraternities shoving wieners up a pledge's butt, then making him eat it.

What the US government did to captured terrorists is do what was necessary for us to gather information after 9/11 in order to keep us safe. THAT is what whizzes off the democrats, that Bush and Cheney SUCCEEDED.

Of course, if they had failed and we were hit again, democrats would have called for their impeachment anyway. There is no agreeing with democrats. They want it both ways.

[jon_norstog]

Red, 311,

I would have somewhat agreed with you at the time, at least about Abu Ghraib. I was bothered at the time that the senior NCO and the company CO were on the scene for some of the Action. The CC, Capt. Brinson, wrote him a counseling slip telling him "you are doing a fine job .... helping us succeed at our mission." Medics were there, treating the prisoners when things went too far. Lawyers from the JAG Corps visited the cellblock and witnessed what was going on.

There was a chain of command and it didn't go through Graner's unit CO, General Karpinski. According to Karpinski, Garner's wing of the prison was under the control of military intelligence. MI was reporting direct somewhere else.

Well when I was in the service they used to say "**** rolls downhill." It sure did in that case. I Just don't like to see it happen.

But here's the thing that really bothers me: You tell me why all those men and women couldn't figure out they were doing something wrong, and why they wouldn't just refuse to be a part of it. Maybe there were troops that DID refuse and got sent off to some unit where they had to do foot patrols in Anwar province. Who knows?

jn

[DaveHH]

in photos, these dopes at Abu Ghraib were enjoying their work and that's pretty sick regardless of the circumstances. From my own experience in the Army, I can say that there are power hungry jerks in the rear areas that thrive on abuse and bullying because they miss the honor and recognition that comes with combat. The fact that they photographed it is even more telling. Trailer trash in uniform, acting normal. He doesn't deserve an Honorable or General Discharge. As far as their superiors, tough sh*t, that was their command and their responsibility, if they were too busy staying clean and cool instead of watching what their troops were up to, too bad. An Infantry Officer loses his company, he's gone, a Navy Captain run his ship aground, he's gone. There's way too much unaccountability over there as it is. When I read about that platoon in Afghanistan that captured the low ground and got themselves shot to pieces in a river bed, walked down the one path right into it, you've got to ask: who do we see about this? Who's teaching these officers? Is someone's butt in a sling over that?