1. Announcement:
    Contributing Member Plan Available !
    Badger ‎(Administrator)
    10-29-2006
    Views:
    216,618
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 171 1 2 3 11 51 101 ... LastLast
Threads 1 to 20 of 3411

Forum: M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle

Forum for discussions about the M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle

» Sticky Threads

  1. Sticky Thread Firearms photography

    (I don't know if I ran this on the old CSP forum or not. In view of the fact that there has been a lot of discussion about posting pictures, I...

    Started by Rick the Librarian‎, 03-07-2009 08:43 AM
    4 Pages •
    1 2 3 ... 4
    firearms, photography 4 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 32
    • Views: 58,817
    jeffjmr
    01-09-2019, 10:39 AM Go to last post

  2. Sticky Thread How to clean a Warner & Swasey Musket Sight

    To start the whole story, I took off all W&S Musket Sights from the rifles I have them with, I took all of the spare ones I had around (including the...

    Started by Promo‎, 01-02-2013 11:18 AM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    clean, musket, sight, swasey, warner 17 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 10
    • Views: 28,097
    ChrisW
    06-12-2017, 05:07 PM Go to last post

  3. Post Sticky Thread Remington 1903A3 (displaying original configuration and finish)

    The question of what the original parts and finish of a Remington 1903A3 comes up very often, as most 1903A3's were refinished during arsenal...

    Started by Harlan (Deceased)‎, 02-05-2010 11:25 AM
    configuration, displaying, finish, original, remington 26 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 1
    • Views: 49,609
    Harlan (Deceased)
    01-05-2011, 07:42 AM Go to last post

  4. Post Sticky Thread Model 1903 and Mauser Patent Infringments

    Here is the little write up on the Mauser patents. The original article from The 1915 Outers publication was posted by Michael Petrov on the old CSP...

    Started by JGaynor‎, 11-01-2010 07:20 AM
    1903, infringments, mauser, model, patent
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 15,695
    JGaynor
    11-01-2010, 07:20 AM Go to last post

  5. Arrow Sticky Thread The Guns at Springfield (DOD Video)

    An interesting video for Springfield collectors ... :thup:

    Started by Badger‎, 08-31-2010 10:29 AM
    dod, guns, springfield, video
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 12,962
    Badger
    08-31-2010, 10:29 AM Go to last post

  6. Post Sticky Thread United States Rifle, Cal .30, Model 1903 Manual

    United States Rifle, Cal .30, Model 1903 Manual Washington Printing Office Pamphlet No. 1923 Revised October 17th, 1911 Format: 72 pages with two...

    Started by Badger‎, 04-13-2010 12:45 PM
    1903, cal, manual, model, rifle, states, united
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 37,896
    Badger
    04-13-2010, 12:45 PM Go to last post

  7. Post Sticky Thread TM 9-1270 U.S. Rifles, Cal .30, M1903, M1903A1, M1903A3, M1903A4 Sniper

    TM 9-1270 U.S. Rifles, Cal .30, M1903, M1903A1, M1903A3, M1903A4 Sniper Ordnance Maintenance Manual War Department Format: 116 pages with multiple...

    Started by Badger‎, 04-13-2010 12:43 PM
    cal, m1903, rifles, sniper
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 24,523
    Badger
    04-13-2010, 12:43 PM Go to last post

  8. Post Sticky Thread M1903 - Individual Instruction in Rifle Practice (A.E.F No. 1418 G-5) (1918)

    M1903 - Individual Instruction in Rifle Practice (A.E.F No. 1418 G-5) (1918) Author: Colonel A.J. Macnab Jr (United States Army) Reprinted November...

    Started by Badger‎, 04-13-2010 12:41 PM
    1418, 1918, aef, individual, instruction, m1903, practice, rifle
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 13,714
    Badger
    04-13-2010, 12:41 PM Go to last post

  9. Post Sticky Thread M1903 Private's Manual (1918)

    M1903 Private's Manual (1918) Author: Colonel Jas. A. Moss (United States Army) Format: 43 pages Note: After you click on images to ENLARGE...

    Started by Badger‎, 04-13-2010 12:40 PM
    1918, m1903, manual, private
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 16,106
    Badger
    04-13-2010, 12:40 PM Go to last post

  10. Post Sticky Thread The Remington Society of America (Remington 03, 03A3, 03-A4 Serial Numbers)

    http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/questions/barrelcodes

    Started by Badger‎, 01-28-2010 06:44 PM
    03a3, 03a4, america, numbers, remington, serial, society
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 42,173
    Badger
    01-28-2010, 06:44 PM Go to last post

  11. Post Sticky Thread U.S. Military Dates of Manufacture (OldGuns.Net)

    Caveat: The Oldguns table does have some problems with the production dates for Remington M1903 and M1903A3 rifles. M1903s are listed as ALL...

    Started by Badger‎, 01-01-2010 08:51 AM
    dates, manufacture, military, oldgunsnet
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 21,307
    Badger
    01-01-2010, 08:51 AM Go to last post

  12. Post Sticky Thread Vi Shooter's Web Pages - Extensive Information on M1903 & Variants

    http://www.vishooter.net/m1903.html

    Submitted by Badger‎, 11-24-2009 09:27 AM
    extensive, information, m1903, pages, shooter, variants, web
    •  
    •  
    Badger
    11-24-2009 09:27 AM Go to last post

  13. Post Sticky Thread Fundamentals of Small Arms Weapons (WWII U.S. Training Films)

    Fundamentals of Small Arms Weapons (WWII U.S. Training Films) These combined videos demonstrate the mechanics of pistols, rifles and machine guns....

    Started by Badger‎, 11-04-2009 12:47 PM
    arms, films, fundamentals, small, training, weapons, wwii
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 12,512
    Badger
    11-04-2009, 12:47 PM Go to last post

  14. Post Sticky Thread TM-43-0001-27 - Army Ammunition Data Sheets (1994)

    TM-43-0001-27 - Army Ammunition Data Sheets (1994) DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT: Approved for public release: distribution is unlimited....

    Started by Badger‎, 11-04-2009 10:38 AM
    1994, ammunition, army, data, sheets, tm27
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 18,092
    Badger
    11-04-2009, 10:38 AM Go to last post

  15. Post Sticky Thread TM9-270 U.S. Rifle, Cal. .30, M1903a4 (Sniper's) Characteristics and Operation

    TM9-270 U.S. RIFLE, CAL. .30, M1903A4 (SNIPER'S) CHARACTERISTICS AND OPERATION Published by War Department (Sept 28, 1943 - 30 Pages) ...

    Started by Badger‎, 10-14-2009 10:41 AM
    cal, characteristics, operation, rifle, sniper
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 12,918
    Badger
    10-14-2009, 10:41 AM Go to last post

  16. Post Sticky Thread Infantry Weapons and their Effects (WWII and Korean era U.S. Training Films)

    Infantry Weapons and their Effects (WWII U.S. Training Film) "Infantry Weapons and Their Effects" is an official WWII era training film which...

    Started by Badger‎, 10-11-2009 04:29 PM
    effects, era, films, infantry, korean, training, weapons, wwii
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 12,592
    Badger
    10-11-2009, 04:29 PM Go to last post

  17. Post Sticky Thread Small Arms Instructors Manual (1918)

    Small Arms Instructors Manual (1918) Compiled by the Small Arms Instruction Corps Format: 234 pages - E.P. Dutton @ Company, New York (1918) ...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-28-2009 02:44 PM
    1918, arms, instructors, manual, small
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 11,420
    Badger
    09-28-2009, 02:44 PM Go to last post

  18. Post Sticky Thread United States Rifles and Machine Guns (1917)

    United States Rifles and Machine Guns (1917) Authors: Fred H. Colvin and Ethan Viall Associate Editors American Machinist Members Society American...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-21-2009 01:49 PM
    1917, guns, machine, rifles, states, united
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 11,720
    Badger
    09-21-2009, 01:49 PM Go to last post

  19. Post Sticky Thread Red Star Remington Model 1903's

    Extracted from "United States - Milsurp Knowledge Library" Red Star Remington Model 1903's (Click PIC to Enlarge)(Click PIC to Enlarge) ...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-14-2009 09:06 AM
    1903, model, red, remington, star
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 35,107
    Badger
    09-14-2009, 09:06 AM Go to last post

  20. Post Sticky Thread Victory Is Our Business (1942)

    Victory Is Our Business (1942) A patriotic motivational film for World War II industrial workers film, located with thanks to member "PBI". It...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-09-2009 02:42 PM
    1942, business, victory
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 11,309
    Badger
    09-09-2009, 02:42 PM Go to last post

  21. Post Sticky Thread Basic Manual of Military Small Arms by W.H.B. Smith

    Basic Manual of Military Small Arms by W.H.B. Smith (Expired Copyright 1943) Observations: by Badger How to load, operate, disassemble,...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-09-2009 12:51 PM
    arms, basic, manual, military, small, smith, whb
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 12,111
    Badger
    09-09-2009, 12:51 PM Go to last post

  22. Post Sticky Thread Springfield 03A3 Rear Sight Removal and Replacement

    Springfield 03A3 Rear Sight Removal and Replacement by "Bob S" Note: After you click on images to ENLARGE them, you may find they...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-09-2009 12:31 PM
    03a3, rear, removal, replacement, sight, springfield
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 21,530
    Badger
    09-09-2009, 12:31 PM Go to last post

  23. Post Sticky Thread 640 Yard Shooting (1943 1903a3 Rifle)

    640 Yard Shooting (1943 1903a3 Rifle) (Videos by YouTube member Ernest "mag30th") Ernest "mag30th" kindly gave us permission to put his two...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-09-2009 11:03 AM
    1943, 640, rifle, shooting, yard
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 16,313
    Badger
    09-09-2009, 11:03 AM Go to last post

  24. Question Global Thread Help: How safe from viruses and hackers am I when using the Milsurps.Com web site?

    Today’s Internet exposes computer users and the web sites they access, to a wide range of malicious pieces of infectious software code, designed to...

    Started by Badger‎, 03-03-2016 07:20 AM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    23 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 14
    • Views: 193,993
    Badger
    12-07-2018 03:55 PM Go to last post

  25. Question Global Thread Help: Where can I discuss politics and gun legislation issues?

    Why have a separate Social Groups area? Over the last 10 years, we’ve received many requests to permit broader public discussions amongst members,...

    Started by Badger‎, 08-08-2016 10:35 AM
    • Replies: 7
    • Views: 67,631
    Sylvano
    12-04-2018 05:53 AM Go to last post

  26. Question Global Thread Help: What is the Advisory Panel Review & Validation Service?

    <center><img src="images/advisory_panel_reviewed_medium.png" alt="This item has been reviewed by members of the Milsurps Advisory Panel."><img...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-19-2014 10:18 AM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    • Replies: 10
    • Views: 187,699
    Joeyice
    12-19-2017 10:44 AM Go to last post

  27. Question Global Thread Help: What is good forum etiquette and how do I deal with other members who make me angry?

    Hello folks … :) I'd like to remind everyone to re-read our Forum Rules & Site User Agreement (click here), particularly the section which covers...

    Started by Badger‎, 01-02-2017 01:32 PM
    • Replies: 1
    • Views: 54,706
    WASATCH CHARLIE
    01-10-2017 01:04 AM Go to last post

  28. Question Global Thread Help: Why am I having a problem uploading pics to attach to my posts?

    There are some members who seem to experience site time-outs, or other problems when uploading pics as attachments to their threads and posts. It...

    Started by Badger‎, 04-26-2016 05:25 AM
    • Replies: 3
    • Views: 58,386
    Badger
    04-27-2016 08:10 AM Go to last post

  29. Question Global Thread Help: How do I find threads with questions that have never been answered?

    Other than someone who fails to say thank you when they get an answer to a question they’ve posted, I don’t think there’s anything more frustrating...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-26-2016 09:16 AM
    • Replies: 1
    • Views: 58,356
    Sentryduty
    02-26-2016 01:26 PM Go to last post

  30. Question Global Thread Help: How do I use the classifieds system to buy and sell items?

    We understand you may be impatient to get on with placing your advertisement, but we would ask that you please read this post carefully, in order to...

    Started by Badger‎, 11-15-2012 07:16 AM
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 81,500
    Badger
    11-15-2012 07:16 AM Go to last post

  31. Question Global Thread Help: Why are my images from Photobucket, ImageShack etc. copied to milsurps.com?

    Answer: For your own protection and to help preserve them for future research by all members ... :thup: The reason we capture and store all...

    Started by Badger‎, 03-01-2011 09:52 AM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    • Replies: 10
    • Views: 150,465
    Badger
    03-03-2011 02:21 PM Go to last post

  32. Question Global Thread Help: How do I show pics from Photobucket, Flickr, ImageShack etc. on milsurps.com?

    The following tutorial was created for the benefit of our members by Milsurps Moderator cafdfw (Harlan). On behalf of all of our membership, I'd...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-12-2011 12:10 PM
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 53,588
    Badger
    02-12-2011 12:10 PM Go to last post

  33. Question Global Thread Help: How do I upload pictures to my posts for storage on milsurps.com?

    The following tutorial was created for the benefit of our members by Milsurps Moderator Harlan (deceased). On behalf of all of our membership, I'd...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-06-2011 03:38 PM
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 45,268
    Badger
    02-06-2011 03:38 PM Go to last post

  34. Question Global Thread Help: Can I access the milsurps.com site from dial-up, cell phone, iPhone or Blackberry?

    The answer is YES … :beerchug: With the evolution of technology, many of our very active members want to keep current viewing our forums using...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-04-2011 08:34 PM
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 35,003
    Badger
    02-04-2011 08:34 PM Go to last post

  35. Question Global Thread Help: My screen is too dark!! How do I change my colour scheme on the milsurps.com site?

    A lot of members don't realize that our site supports multiple interfaces, often referred to as Forum Skins. Fundamentally, there are three...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-02-2011 12:38 PM
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 30,693
    Badger
    02-02-2011 12:38 PM Go to last post
» Normal Threads

  1. Damaged wood

    Hi, I just won this 1903 rifle stock on egun. The wood is a bit damaged, but I think a proper refurbishment is possible. What kind of wood...

    Started by donki1967‎, 09-20-2019 12:17 PM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    damaged, wood 10 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 11
    • Views: 534
    donki1967
    10-20-2019, 11:59 AM Go to last post

  2. Stock Markings

    My 1903-A3 stock only has one mark!! Normal?? No indications of refinish.

    Started by Road Rat‎, 09-27-2019 07:52 PM
    markings, stock
    • Replies: 8
    • Views: 289
    togor
    10-14-2019, 12:58 PM Go to last post

  3. Sporterized 1903 with Lyman Sights has issue with zero

    I have a sporterized 1903 with a Lyman 57S 03A3 sight that I inherited. The front sight is Lyman but I don't know the model number. It was shooting...

    Started by joe03‎, 09-20-2019 01:40 PM
    1903, issue, lyman, sights, sporterized 1 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 9
    • Views: 334
    chuckindenver
    10-13-2019, 08:37 PM Go to last post

  4. Griffin and Howe heavy barrel M1903 target rifle

    I recently glommed this rifle at an auction and have been scouring the internet for any information about it with almost almost no luck. The...

    Started by Calfed‎, 08-31-2019 10:16 PM
    barrel, griffin, heavy, howe, m1903, rifle, target
    • Replies: 9
    • Views: 415
    Calfed
    10-11-2019, 06:30 PM Go to last post

  5. 1903-A3 Bolt question

    What type of replacement bolts for an 03-o3A3 are generally recognized as having a + tolerance for fit? HO, R marked doesn't matter I just want to...

    Started by Doco overboard‎, 10-03-2019 08:09 PM
    1903a3, bolt, question
    • Replies: 1
    • Views: 129
    chuckindenver
    10-07-2019, 10:12 AM Go to last post

  6. HELP: SRS for a 1903 Springfield

    Does anyone have access to the SRS? looking for information on a Springfield 1903 3255599. Thanks in Advance... Bill

    Started by usabaker‎, 10-03-2019 09:28 PM
    1903, springfield, srs 1 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 6
    • Views: 238
    usabaker
    10-05-2019, 05:07 PM Go to last post

  7. Best ammo for Springfield 1903?

    Hey recently won a 1903 Springfield on gun broker. Now i am just wondering what is the best 30-06 ammo for these guys? I had got a box of cheap...

    Started by ChevyGuy7‎, 06-29-2013 10:36 PM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    1903, 1903springfield, 30-06 ammo, ammo, springfield 1 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 10
    • Views: 11,543
    Daan Kemp
    09-30-2019, 07:49 AM Go to last post

  8. Early Springfield 1903 restroation

    I bought this nice four digit Springfield 1903 receiver from the CMP Auction about five years ago. The finish and condition look nice and I found a...

    Started by RCS‎, 09-19-2019 09:07 AM
    1903, early, restroation, springfield 3 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 7
    • Views: 289
    browningautorifle
    09-20-2019, 10:16 PM Go to last post

  9. 1903 Sporter front sight

    I have a 1903 'star gauged' Sporter that I would like to add a front sight. The barrel diameter seems thinner than most and there is a gloss bluing...

    Started by rapidfire10ring‎, 03-27-2015 05:52 PM
    1903, front, sight, sporter
    • Replies: 7
    • Views: 3,564
    EriCal
    09-16-2019, 12:14 AM Go to last post

  10. MINT 1903-A3 Springfield question

    Good morning all!! Happy Tuesday. I've come into possession of a MINT 1903-A3 Springfield that is remarkable. It is a Remington serial number...

    Started by jsanford29‎, 08-27-2019 02:52 PM
    3 Pages •
    1 2 3
    1903a3, mint, question, springfield 2 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 24
    • Views: 1,522
    Brian Dick
    09-14-2019, 10:16 AM Go to last post

  11. SRS request

    Hello, I’m new to this forum. I recently acquired what appears to be a NRA Sporter. Serial# 1295580 (matching number electric pencil engraved on...

    Started by varmintvaporizer‎, 09-09-2019 08:13 PM
    request, srs
    • Replies: 2
    • Views: 212
    varmintvaporizer
    09-10-2019, 09:48 PM Go to last post

  12. Looking for the 1903 rifle that marries up to my Warner-Swasey 1913 scope

    I just picked up a nice W-S 1913 scope (S/N: 7616) with original mount, case and base that was issued to SA 1903 S/N: 936514. It's a long shot and I...

    Started by prc148‎, 11-01-2015 12:29 PM
    1903, 1913, marries, rifle, scope, warnerswasey
    • Replies: 3
    • Views: 1,468
    Promo
    09-03-2019, 11:07 AM Go to last post

  13. Cross on Early Remingtom 03 bolt

    Picked up an early (1941-42) Remington '03 bolt. It has an outline of a cross (like the Swiss flag) on the rear face of the root handle...A sub...

    Started by El Woodman‎, 08-21-2019 09:31 AM
    bolt, cross, early, remingtom
    • Replies: 3
    • Views: 300
    Rick the Librarian
    08-26-2019, 09:27 AM Go to last post

  14. Early Rock Island 1903

    I came into possession of this rifle a little while back, and now that I've gone through it I'd like to get the comments and thoughts of the experts....

    Started by boomer656‎, 11-06-2018 01:06 PM
    3 Pages •
    1 2 3
    1903, early, island, rock 38 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 25
    • Views: 2,002
    RCS
    08-25-2019, 10:39 AM Go to last post

  15. Newb 1903 question

    I just signed up for this site after reading some of the forums over the last few weeks. I have a 44 Springfield M1 Garand with an Dutch Evo barrel...

    Started by sray53txtn‎, 10-03-2018 10:02 PM
    1903, newb, question
    • Replies: 9
    • Views: 703
    chuckindenver
    08-23-2019, 12:21 PM Go to last post

  16. SRS Check On Early RIA M1903

    I have RIA M1903 with serial number 100438, barrel date of 11/08. Rifle appears to be in original condition. Any SRS info would be greatly...

    Started by Durango56‎, 12-28-2018 09:47 AM
    check, early, m1903, ria, srs 9 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 6
    • Views: 835
    Smokeeaterpilot
    08-21-2019, 09:57 PM Go to last post

  17. Remington 03-A3

    Picked this up at the gun show last weekend. Don't know much about them, so could use some opinions if it looks original. Haven't pulled it out of...

    Started by TankerDon‎, 06-07-2019 11:50 AM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    03a3, remington 15 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 14
    • Views: 1,034
    Ex Crab
    08-19-2019, 02:26 PM Go to last post

  18. Found: Post 1905 Solid Hump Handguard (Springfield 1902)

    I think I may have happened upon a post 1905 Solid Hump Handguard for the Springfield 1903. It has a crack and missing a bit of wood at the forward...

    Started by usabaker‎, 08-10-2019 11:36 AM
    1902, 1905, found, handguard, hump, post, solid, springfield 11 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 6
    • Views: 311
    BEAR
    08-12-2019, 09:56 PM Go to last post

  19. Ejector interference

    1920 03 Springfield Mark I Bolt strikes ejector frequently and requires much "mickeying" to get it to feed over ejector. Ideas? Thanks! ...

    Started by dcrummett‎, 08-10-2019 09:35 PM
    ejector, interference
    • Replies: 1
    • Views: 176
    chuckindenver
    08-12-2019, 10:11 AM Go to last post

  20. SRS check on Springfield 1903

    Was wondering if I could please get an SRS on my Springfield 1903 S/N 404784. The rifle looks to have not had any rebuilds so maybe sold through DCM....

    Started by CaptMandrake‎, 08-02-2019 06:38 PM
    1903, check, springfield, srs 7 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 8
    • Views: 431
    Promo
    08-09-2019, 12:24 PM Go to last post
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 171 1 2 3 11 51 101 ... LastLast

Forum Information and Options

Thread Display Options

Use this control to limit the display of threads to those newer than the specified time frame.

Allows you to choose the data by which the thread list will be sorted.

Order threads in...

Note: when sorting by date, 'descending order' will show the newest results first.

Icon Legend

Contains unread posts
Contains unread posts
Contains no unread posts
Contains no unread posts
More than 15 replies or 150 views
Hot thread with unread posts
More than 15 replies or 150 views
Hot thread with no unread posts
Closed Thread
Thread is closed
Thread Contains a Message Written By You
You have posted in this thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Forum Rules & Site User Agreement

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:08 AM.
Powered by vBulletin™
Copyright © 2019 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Image resizer by SevenSkins

Profile Hover, vB Optimise, vBMail, Username Change, Thread / Post Bookmarking - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2017 by MILSURPS.COM - All Rights Reserved
Your IP Address: 34.204.168.57  |  OS: unknown  |  Browser: unknown unknown