+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 184 1 2 3 11 51 101 ... LastLast
Threads 1 to 20 of 3680

Forum: M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle

Forum for discussions about the M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle

» Sticky Threads

  1. Sticky Thread Firearms photography

    (I don't know if I ran this on the old CSP forum or not. In view of the fact that there has been a lot of discussion about posting pictures, I...

    Started by Rick the Librarian‎, 03-07-2009 09:43 AM
    4 Pages •
    1 2 3 ... 4
    firearms, photography 4 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 34
    • Views: 84,857
    Flying10uk
    11-09-2019, 09:27 PM Go to last post

  2. Sticky Thread How to clean a Warner & Swasey Musket Sight

    To start the whole story, I took off all W&S Musket Sights from the rifles I have them with, I took all of the spare ones I had around (including the...

    Started by Promo‎, 01-02-2013 12:18 PM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    clean, musket, sight, swasey, warner 17 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 10
    • Views: 45,651
    ChrisW
    06-12-2017, 06:07 PM Go to last post

  3. Post Sticky Thread Remington 1903A3 (displaying original configuration and finish)

    The question of what the original parts and finish of a Remington 1903A3 comes up very often, as most 1903A3's were refinished during arsenal...

    Started by Harlan (Deceased)‎, 02-05-2010 12:25 PM
    configuration, displaying, finish, original, remington 26 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 1
    • Views: 63,444
    Harlan (Deceased)
    01-05-2011, 08:42 AM Go to last post

  4. Post Sticky Thread Model 1903 and Mauser Patent Infringments

    Here is the little write up on the Mauser patents. The original article from The 1915 Outers publication was posted by Michael Petrov on the old CSP...

    Started by JGaynor‎, 11-01-2010 08:20 AM
    1903, infringments, mauser, model, patent
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 23,366
    JGaynor
    11-01-2010, 08:20 AM Go to last post

  5. Arrow Sticky Thread The Guns at Springfield (DOD Video)

    An interesting video for Springfield collectors ... :thup:

    Started by Badger‎, 08-31-2010 11:29 AM
    dod, guns, springfield, video
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 20,565
    Badger
    08-31-2010, 11:29 AM Go to last post

  6. Post Sticky Thread United States Rifle, Cal .30, Model 1903 Manual

    United States Rifle, Cal .30, Model 1903 Manual Washington Printing Office Pamphlet No. 1923 Revised October 17th, 1911 Format: 72 pages with two...

    Started by Badger‎, 04-13-2010 01:45 PM
    1903, cal, manual, model, rifle, states, united
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 48,687
    Badger
    04-13-2010, 01:45 PM Go to last post

  7. Post Sticky Thread TM 9-1270 U.S. Rifles, Cal .30, M1903, M1903A1, M1903A3, M1903A4 Sniper

    TM 9-1270 U.S. Rifles, Cal .30, M1903, M1903A1, M1903A3, M1903A4 Sniper Ordnance Maintenance Manual War Department Format: 116 pages with multiple...

    Started by Badger‎, 04-13-2010 01:43 PM
    cal, m1903, rifles, sniper
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 33,259
    Badger
    04-13-2010, 01:43 PM Go to last post

  8. Post Sticky Thread M1903 - Individual Instruction in Rifle Practice (A.E.F No. 1418 G-5) (1918)

    M1903 - Individual Instruction in Rifle Practice (A.E.F No. 1418 G-5) (1918) Author: Colonel A.J. Macnab Jr (United States Army) Reprinted November...

    Started by Badger‎, 04-13-2010 01:41 PM
    1418, 1918, aef, individual, instruction, m1903, practice, rifle
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 20,657
    Badger
    04-13-2010, 01:41 PM Go to last post

  9. Post Sticky Thread M1903 Private's Manual (1918)

    M1903 Private's Manual (1918) Author: Colonel Jas. A. Moss (United States Army) Format: 43 pages Note: After you click on images to ENLARGE...

    Started by Badger‎, 04-13-2010 01:40 PM
    1918, m1903, manual, private
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 23,813
    Badger
    04-13-2010, 01:40 PM Go to last post

  10. Post Sticky Thread The Remington Society of America (Remington 03, 03A3, 03-A4 Serial Numbers)

    https://www.remingtonsociety.org/manufacture-dates/

    Started by Badger‎, 01-28-2010 07:44 PM
    03a3, 03a4, america, numbers, remington, serial, society
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 51,674
    Badger
    01-28-2010, 07:44 PM Go to last post

  11. Post Sticky Thread U.S. Military Dates of Manufacture (OldGuns.Net)

    Caveat: The Oldguns table does have some problems with the production dates for Remington M1903 and M1903A3 rifles. M1903s are listed as ALL...

    Started by Badger‎, 01-01-2010 09:51 AM
    dates, manufacture, military, oldgunsnet
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 29,019
    Badger
    01-01-2010, 09:51 AM Go to last post

  12. Post Sticky Thread Vi Shooter's Web Pages - Extensive Information on M1903 & Variants

    http://www.vishooter.net/m1903.html

    Submitted by Badger‎, 11-24-2009 10:27 AM
    extensive, information, m1903, pages, shooter, variants, web
    •  
    •  
    Badger
    11-24-2009 10:27 AM Go to last post

  13. Post Sticky Thread Fundamentals of Small Arms Weapons (WWII U.S. Training Films)

    Fundamentals of Small Arms Weapons (WWII U.S. Training Films) These combined videos demonstrate the mechanics of pistols, rifles and machine guns....

    Started by Badger‎, 11-04-2009 01:47 PM
    arms, films, fundamentals, small, training, weapons, wwii
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 19,101
    Badger
    11-04-2009, 01:47 PM Go to last post

  14. Post Sticky Thread TM-43-0001-27 - Army Ammunition Data Sheets (1994)

    TM-43-0001-27 - Army Ammunition Data Sheets (1994) DISTRIBUTION STATEMENT: Approved for public release: distribution is unlimited....

    Started by Badger‎, 11-04-2009 11:38 AM
    1994, ammunition, army, data, sheets, tm27
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 30,281
    Badger
    11-04-2009, 11:38 AM Go to last post

  15. Post Sticky Thread TM9-270 U.S. Rifle, Cal. .30, M1903a4 (Sniper's) Characteristics and Operation

    TM9-270 U.S. RIFLE, CAL. .30, M1903A4 (SNIPER'S) CHARACTERISTICS AND OPERATION Published by War Department (Sept 28, 1943 - 30 Pages) ...

    Started by Badger‎, 10-14-2009 11:41 AM
    cal, characteristics, operation, rifle, sniper
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 18,953
    Badger
    10-14-2009, 11:41 AM Go to last post

  16. Post Sticky Thread Infantry Weapons and their Effects (WWII and Korean era U.S. Training Films)

    Infantry Weapons and their Effects (WWII U.S. Training Film) "Infantry Weapons and Their Effects" is an official WWII era training film which...

    Started by Badger‎, 10-11-2009 05:29 PM
    effects, era, films, infantry, korean, training, weapons, wwii
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 18,919
    Badger
    10-11-2009, 05:29 PM Go to last post

  17. Post Sticky Thread Small Arms Instructors Manual (1918)

    Small Arms Instructors Manual (1918) Compiled by the Small Arms Instruction Corps Format: 234 pages - E.P. Dutton @ Company, New York (1918) ...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-28-2009 03:44 PM
    1918, arms, instructors, manual, small
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 16,884
    Badger
    09-28-2009, 03:44 PM Go to last post

  18. Post Sticky Thread United States Rifles and Machine Guns (1917)

    United States Rifles and Machine Guns (1917) Authors: Fred H. Colvin and Ethan Viall Associate Editors American Machinist Members Society American...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-21-2009 02:49 PM
    1917, guns, machine, rifles, states, united
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 17,256
    Badger
    09-21-2009, 02:49 PM Go to last post

  19. Post Sticky Thread Red Star Remington Model 1903's

    Extracted from "United States - Milsurp Knowledge Library" Red Star Remington Model 1903's (Click PIC to Enlarge)(Click PIC to Enlarge) ...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-14-2009 10:06 AM
    1903, model, red, remington, star
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 45,562
    Badger
    09-14-2009, 10:06 AM Go to last post

  20. Post Sticky Thread Victory Is Our Business (1942)

    Victory Is Our Business (1942) A patriotic motivational film for World War II industrial workers film, located with thanks to member "PBI". It...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-09-2009 03:42 PM
    1942, business, victory
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 16,847
    Badger
    09-09-2009, 03:42 PM Go to last post

  21. Post Sticky Thread Basic Manual of Military Small Arms by W.H.B. Smith

    Basic Manual of Military Small Arms by W.H.B. Smith (Expired Copyright 1943) Observations: by Badger How to load, operate, disassemble,...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-09-2009 01:51 PM
    arms, basic, manual, military, small, smith, whb
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 18,008
    Badger
    09-09-2009, 01:51 PM Go to last post

  22. Post Sticky Thread Springfield 03A3 Rear Sight Removal and Replacement

    Springfield 03A3 Rear Sight Removal and Replacement by "Bob S" Note: After you click on images to ENLARGE them, you may find they...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-09-2009 01:31 PM
    03a3, rear, removal, replacement, sight, springfield
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 28,618
    Badger
    09-09-2009, 01:31 PM Go to last post

  23. Post Sticky Thread 640 Yard Shooting (1943 1903a3 Rifle)

    640 Yard Shooting (1943 1903a3 Rifle) (Videos by YouTube member Ernest "mag30th") Ernest "mag30th" kindly gave us permission to put his two...

    Started by Badger‎, 09-09-2009 12:03 PM
    1943, 640, rifle, shooting, yard
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 22,394
    Badger
    09-09-2009, 12:03 PM Go to last post

  24. Question Global Thread Help: How do I upload pictures to my posts for storage on milsurps.com?

    The following tutorial was created for the benefit of our members by Milsurps Moderator Harlan (deceased). On behalf of all of our membership, I'd...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-06-2011 04:38 PM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    6 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 15
    • Views: 233,516
    Badger
    11-20-2021 05:50 AM Go to last post

  25. Question Global Thread Help: What is good forum etiquette and how do I deal with other members who make me angry?

    Hello folks … :) I'd like to remind everyone to re-read our Forum Rules & Site User Agreement (click here), particularly the section which covers...

    Started by Badger‎, 01-02-2017 02:32 PM
    • Replies: 8
    • Views: 103,214
    ssgross
    07-25-2021 09:29 PM Go to last post

  26. Question Global Thread Help: Where can I discuss politics and gun legislation issues?

    Why have a separate Social Groups area? Over the last 10 years, we’ve received many requests to permit broader public discussions amongst members,...

    Started by Badger‎, 08-08-2016 11:35 AM
    • Replies: 9
    • Views: 106,860
    AlexRod85
    07-19-2021 06:12 PM Go to last post

  27. Question Global Thread Help: Why am I having a problem uploading pics to attach to my posts?

    There are some members who seem to experience site time-outs, or other problems when uploading pics as attachments to their threads and posts. It...

    Started by Badger‎, 04-26-2016 06:25 AM
    • Replies: 7
    • Views: 91,416
    AlexRod85
    07-19-2021 06:05 PM Go to last post

  28. Question Global Thread Help: How do I find threads with questions that have never been answered?

    Other than someone who fails to say thank you when they get an answer to a question they’ve posted, I don’t think there’s anything more frustrating...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-26-2016 10:16 AM
    • Replies: 4
    • Views: 95,669
    Badger
    03-28-2020 07:39 AM Go to last post

  29. Question Global Thread Help: What is the Advisory Panel Review & Validation Service?

    <center><img src="images/advisory_panel_reviewed_medium.png" alt="This item has been reviewed by members of the Milsurps Advisory Panel."><img...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-19-2014 11:18 AM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    • Replies: 11
    • Views: 301,988
    Mrshimm
    02-06-2020 11:23 AM Go to last post

  30. Question Global Thread Help: How safe from viruses and hackers am I when using the Milsurps.Com web site?

    Today’s Internet exposes computer users and the web sites they access, to a wide range of malicious pieces of infectious software code, designed to...

    Started by Badger‎, 03-03-2016 08:20 AM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    23 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 13
    • Views: 356,790
    Badger
    12-07-2018 04:55 PM Go to last post

  31. Question Global Thread Help: How do I use the classifieds system to buy and sell items?

    We understand you may be impatient to get on with placing your advertisement, but we would ask that you please read this post carefully, in order to...

    Started by Badger‎, 11-15-2012 08:16 AM
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 117,812
    Badger
    11-15-2012 08:16 AM Go to last post

  32. Question Global Thread Help: Why are my images from Photobucket, ImageShack etc. copied to milsurps.com?

    Answer: For your own protection and to help preserve them for future research by all members ... :thup: The reason we capture and store all...

    Started by Badger‎, 03-01-2011 10:52 AM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    • Replies: 10
    • Views: 217,681
    Badger
    03-03-2011 03:21 PM Go to last post

  33. Question Global Thread Help: How do I show pics from Photobucket, Flickr, ImageShack etc. on milsurps.com?

    The following tutorial was created for the benefit of our members by Milsurps Moderator cafdfw (Harlan). On behalf of all of our membership, I'd...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-12-2011 01:10 PM
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 88,621
    Badger
    02-12-2011 01:10 PM Go to last post

  34. Question Global Thread Help: Can I access the milsurps.com site from dial-up, cell phone, iPhone or Blackberry?

    The answer is YES … :beerchug: With the evolution of technology, many of our very active members want to keep current viewing our forums using...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-04-2011 09:34 PM
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 60,238
    Badger
    02-04-2011 09:34 PM Go to last post

  35. Question Global Thread Help: My screen is too dark!! How do I change my colour scheme on the milsurps.com site?

    A lot of members don't realize that our site supports multiple interfaces, often referred to as Forum Skins. Fundamentally, there are three...

    Started by Badger‎, 02-02-2011 01:38 PM
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 50,102
    Badger
    02-02-2011 01:38 PM Go to last post
» Normal Threads

  1. Rubber washers on the barrel of a 03A3 RIA rebuild?

    Hello I am cleaning up a cmp certified RA 1903a3 rifle with barrel date 8-43 that was rebuilt at RIA and noticed there are 3 rubber washers on the...

    Started by Freestateguy‎, 11-22-2021 11:17 PM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    03a3, barrel, rebuild, ria, rubber, washers 2 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 10
    • Views: 370
    mark1
    Today, 10:31 AM Go to last post

  2. a4 sporter?

    I scored another Springfield sporter to work on, should be delivered this week. The original old-style Redfield base and rings are a nice bonus,...

    Started by ssgross‎, 07-01-2021 02:47 PM
    5 Pages •
    1 2 3 ... 5
    sporter 28 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 41
    • Views: 3,792
    ssgross
    11-29-2021, 08:46 PM Go to last post

  3. Need help IDing 1903A3 bolt sleeve/safety

    Hello, I am documenting a RA 1903A3 serial 35831xx with a 8-43 RA barrel. It has a boxed RIA/EB rebuild stamp on its scant stock. I have everything...

    Started by Freestateguy‎, 11-24-2021 12:44 PM
    bolt, iding, sleeve or safety 4 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 3
    • Views: 153
    Garandy
    11-28-2021, 08:15 PM Go to last post

  4. SRS check on Springfield 03 with USMC traits

    Recently picked up another 03 and it has quite a few USMC traits along with it being within 2k sn of 2 documented USMC rifles. Could I get someone to...

    Started by Mt203‎, 11-21-2021 09:28 AM
    check, springfield, srs, traits, usmc
    • Replies: 6
    • Views: 275
    RCS
    11-28-2021, 05:17 PM Go to last post

  5. National Ordnance A3

    The one I have is serial number 6000034. The few I've seen or heard of have numbers beginning with 5. Has anyone seen a "6"?

    Started by ArtPahl‎, 11-23-2021 01:09 PM
    national, ordnance
    • Replies: 2
    • Views: 204
    butlersrangers
    11-26-2021, 02:38 AM Go to last post

  6. Type C Stock

    Mine has the letter S stamped above the number 9 in the cut-off notch. The head of both cross bolts are stamped with the number 2. I'm curious as...

    Started by ArtPahl‎, 11-23-2021 01:15 PM
    stock, type
    • Replies: 2
    • Views: 182
    RCS
    11-23-2021, 04:38 PM Go to last post

  7. Question 03 History help please

    I got a Springfield Arsenal 03 recently. Arsenal rebuilt with circle a barrel dtd. 9/43, scant stock. Serial num. 847561, anyone know how I can find...

    Started by bigdummy‎, 10-23-2021 07:37 PM
    history 1 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 3
    • Views: 326
    RCS
    11-22-2021, 09:54 PM Go to last post

  8. 1903 stock fitting question for the experts

    Specifically about wood-to-metal contact in the area "around" the tang...I mean the wings, or the flared undersides, not the underside where where...

    Started by ssgross‎, 11-16-2021 05:52 PM
    1903, experts, fitting, question, stock
    • Replies: 4
    • Views: 235
    ssgross
    11-22-2021, 06:51 PM Go to last post

  9. my new, broken 1903a3

    I found and acquired a 1903a3 that needs some TLC. It's stock is broken at the wrist. The bolt handle has been mutilated, and the barrel was cut...

    Started by ssgross‎, 03-29-2021 10:36 AM
    7 Pages •
    1 2 3 ... 7
    broken 33 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 61
    • Views: 6,478
    ssgross
    11-16-2021, 11:34 AM Go to last post

  10. Replacement stock on previously sporterized 1903a3 - several questions

    First post – thanks for letting join this site. My dad passed away last year and I inherited his sporterized 1903a3. He took a lot of mule and...

    Started by gentwocoog‎, 12-08-2020 12:59 PM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    previously, questions, replacement, sporterized, stock 9 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 19
    • Views: 3,995
    mrclark303
    11-16-2021, 05:25 AM Go to last post

  11. RIA 1903 S/N 398186

    I recently purchased a RIA 1903 with serial number 398186. From information on the Forum and links to other sites, I determined that this was a...

    Started by jjspearson‎, 11-12-2021 01:36 PM
    1903, ria, s or n 8 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 2
    • Views: 221
    jjspearson
    11-15-2021, 01:36 PM Go to last post

  12. Another m1903 with questions

    Hello I have a springfield armory m1903 that my father gave me and I'm just trying to figure out what I have because I'm selling my guns and don't...

    Started by parkerdog‎, 11-14-2021 11:22 PM
    m1903, questions
    • Replies: 1
    • Views: 124
    browningautorifle
    11-15-2021, 01:37 AM Go to last post

  13. Air Service 1903 Magazine

    These aren't often seen so I thought I'd share. This came from an online auction which, admittedly, I knew did not offer shipping. After...

    Started by rcathey‎, 10-30-2021 09:15 PM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    1903, air, magazine, service 5 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 10
    • Views: 486
    rcathey
    11-11-2021, 12:33 PM Go to last post

  14. I just received a 1903 Modified

    Looks like a nice Remington 1903 from WW2 era. It's serial range is 330xxxx, with barrel rollmarked 4-42. The replacement stock is stamped faintly...

    Started by SFC Higgins‎, 08-21-2021 03:30 PM
    3 Pages •
    1 2 3
    1903, modified, received
    • Replies: 20
    • Views: 2,097
    fjruple
    11-06-2021, 07:58 AM Go to last post

  15. Question Air Service Rifle

    I am about to start an Air Service Rifle project and I need advice. Ive got quite a few '03s the select from. Im handy at wood and metal work. I...

    Started by 1903Collector‎, 11-02-2021 02:56 AM
    air, rifle, service 4 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 7
    • Views: 365
    butlersrangers
    11-04-2021, 11:12 PM Go to last post

  16. Fun With Rifle Grenades

    Brazilian Troops, somewhere in Italy, September 1944

    Started by M1903Guy‎, 11-04-2021 08:49 PM
    fun, grenades, rifle 1 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 0
    • Views: 177
    M1903Guy
    11-04-2021, 08:49 PM Go to last post

  17. Why U.S. Govt Still Making 03/A3's in 1944?

    By 1944 with millions of M1 Garands and millions of M1 Carbines having been made and still in massive Wartime Production, why were Remington 03A3s...

    Started by Hammer‎, 10-10-2021 07:27 PM
    4 Pages •
    1 2 3 ... 4
    03 or a3, 1944, govt, making 4 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 36
    • Views: 1,778
    Rick the Librarian
    11-03-2021, 01:43 PM Go to last post

  18. Inherited 1903 Springfield (in family over 65 years)

    Greetings, I just inherited my grandpa's 1903 Springfield and am trying to get a clearer picture of the weapon. Unfortunately he never told my father...

    Started by Kizhuyak‎, 06-10-2021 05:05 PM
    1903, 1903 springfield, family, inherited, springfield, years 10 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 9
    • Views: 784
    Kizhuyak
    11-02-2021, 02:20 PM Go to last post

  19. 1903A3 Remington Stock

    Hello-I have acquired a Remington stock from a family member and was looking for any additional info. My uncle had bought this rifle and put a...

    Started by Kedrs48‎, 08-06-2021 02:01 PM
    remington, stock 5 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 4
    • Views: 524
    browningautorifle
    11-02-2021, 11:30 AM Go to last post

  20. Springfield M1903, manu year 1919, original stock, 1942 barrel?

    Recently inherited this piece and preparing to clean it up and am researching it the best I can to understand its provenance and characteristics. ...

    Started by Alex.California‎, 10-24-2021 04:03 PM
    2 Pages •
    1 2
    1919, 1942, barrel, m1903, manu, original, springfield, stock, year 16 Attachment(s)
    • Replies: 12
    • Views: 613
    Rick the Librarian
    10-30-2021, 08:36 PM Go to last post
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 184 1 2 3 11 51 101 ... LastLast

Forum Information and Options

Thread Display Options

Use this control to limit the display of threads to those newer than the specified time frame.

Allows you to choose the data by which the thread list will be sorted.

Order threads in...

Note: when sorting by date, 'descending order' will show the newest results first.

Icon Legend

Contains unread posts
Contains unread posts
Contains no unread posts
Contains no unread posts
More than 15 replies or 150 views
Hot thread with unread posts
More than 15 replies or 150 views
Hot thread with no unread posts
Closed Thread
Thread is closed
Thread Contains a Message Written By You
You have posted in this thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Forum Rules & Site User Agreement

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:14 PM.
Powered by vBulletin™
Copyright © 2021 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Image resizer by SevenSkins

Profile Hover, vB Optimise, vBMail, Username Change, Thread / Post Bookmarking - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2020 by MILSURPS.COM - All Rights Reserved
Your IP Address: 34.207.247.69  |  OS: unknown  |  Browser: unknown unknown