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    Member captain-03's Avatar
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    Need Help With Tracer Load --

    Recently I was given several 1000 pulled M62 .308 tracer tips. After weighing several, they all seem to be in the 140gr range. My concern is actually the length of the tips and the possibility of seating them too deep as to compress a powder charge. They are rather long as compared to the M80 tips. Anyone out there have any experience reloading the M62s for the M1Aicon? If so, would you mind sharing some loading data. They will be shot in the M1A Scout and bolt gun. Thanks in advance for any assistance you may be able to render!!
    www.msgunowners.com

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    Member Got-R-Did's Avatar
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    Howdy Cpt-03,
    I am working through my box of 3K M25s as well. I have had good luck with the following specs. The data can be confirmed in the latest Nosler manual and run in the middle of the pressure spectrum of each propellant. Furthermore the propellants below are appropriate for the gas systems of the rifles you mention. I have seated these bullets to a Cartridge Overall Length (COL) of 2.790" and crimped in a seperate step with a taper crimp die. The coefficient of friction due to the slightly longer bearing surface of these bullets in relation to the bore is negated by the lighter weight of the bullets. My particular group of bullets have a nominal weight of 142 gr, and the specs for the M25 state a weight of 145 as standard. As usual all caveats apply to the data included below and I urge you to authenicate before you explore the recipes. That said, I hope the information is useful.

    IMR-4895 43.5 gr., CCI-200 primer, LC 88 case @ 2,680 fps.

    IMR-4064 45.0 gr., CCI-200 primer, FC 90 case @ 2,750 fps.

    Reloder-15 44.0 gr., Fed 210 primer, Fed case @ 2,725 fps.

    These are velocities out of my PSS-LTR- 20" barrel, so you may realize a slightly higher speed out of your M1Aicon, but about the same out of the SOCOM.
    As for the possible compression of the propellant beneath the bullet, it is unlikely as there is ample room in the case given the less than maximum charges listed.
    Let us know if this works for you.
    Cheers.
    Got-R-Did

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    Member John Coleman's Avatar
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    Here are some specs to compare.

    M-80 = 145gr@ 2750 fps +/- 30 fps @ 78 ft
    accuracy = 5" @ 600 yd (in boxes and clips) / 7.5" @ 600 yd on links
    powder charge = 44.0 grains extruded

    M-61 = 150gr@2750 fps
    accuracy = 9.8" (from metric may be 10")@ 600 yd/549m
    powder charge = 43.2 grains extruded

    M-62 = 142gr@2680 fps
    accuracy = 15" @ 600yd
    powder charge = 43.5 grains extruded

    Dim trace to min 13,7 m
    from the muzzle of the
    weapon, visible from
    max 92 m to min 777 m
    from the muzzle of the
    weapon

    Maximum pressure limit is the same for all @ 3447 BAR / 50, 000 CUP

    Data is from company that uses the same powder for all loads. This makes it easier to compare.

    case length = 2.015"

    cartridge length - 2.80"

    M-80 bullet length = 29.00 mm / 1.1417"

    M-61 bullet length = 32.40 mm / 1.2756"

    M-62 bullet length = 34.50 mm / 1.3583"

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    Member John Coleman's Avatar
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    The 30-06 M25 bullet is 144 grains compared to the M62 bullet at 142 grains.

    M25 bullet length is 36.50 mm / 1.4370".

    M2 (30-06) = 152 grains / 1.3709" @ 2740 fps - COL = 3.30" - powder=47.8gr
    accuracy = 7.5" @ 600 yd

    M25(30-06)= 144 grains @ 2660 fps - COL = 3.30" - powder=46.3gr
    accuracy = 18" @ 600 yd

    Dim tracer to min. 13 m from the muzzle of the weapon, visible from max 92 m to min 823 m from the muzzle of the
    Last edited by John Coleman; 03-15-2009 at 03:34 AM.

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    Member captain-03's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks guys!!
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    Member dbooksta's Avatar
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    M25 vs M62?

    What is the difference between M25 and M62 tracers? The only differences I can see are:

    1. M25 weights ~2 grains more
    2. M25 has 2 cannelures vs 1 on the M62

    Otherwise are these functionally the same? Or is there a difference in vintage, tracing compound, etc.?


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    Member dbooksta's Avatar
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    For those interested, I dissected and analyzed a number of these bullets, and concluded that the M62 and M25 bullets are nearly identical. Details and measurements here:
    EmptorMaven » Blog Archive » M25 and M62 .30 caliber Tracer Bullets

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    Member wolfganggross's Avatar
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    need help with tracer load--

    The real diffrence in the m25 and the m62 is;

    m25 tracer 30.06- (or early versions t10) has a 145 gr bullet with 50 gr of IMR 4895 powder and travels 2665 fps. The tracer compound contains compostion R 321 which is 16% polyvinyle chloride, 26% magnesium powder, 52% strontium nitrate.

    m62 tracer 7.62x51- has a 142 gr bullet with 46 gr WC 846 powder and travels 2750 fps. The tracer compound contains compostion R 284 which is 17% polyvinyle chloride, 28% magnesium powder, and 55% strontium nitrate. (Also used on m196 .223)

    and just to throw in;

    m276 dim tracer compound is compostion R 440 which is barium perioxide, strontium perioxide, calcium resonate, and magnesium carbonate.
    wolf

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    Senior Member jjroth's Avatar
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    You do know that these items burn inside the barrel...

    and an extremely abrasive residue is left.

    Are your group holding tight???

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    Member tazaroo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjroth View Post
    and an extremely abrasive residue is left.

    Are your group holding tight???

    These do not burn in the barrel but rather light up about 70 to 100 yards out. The only residue left in the barrel is powder and copper fouling. To the very best of my knowledge, the only military tracer of recent existence was the M196 5.56 NATO tracer to start burning in the barrel and those were used from the early 60's to the early 80's without issue. Early red tip 30-06 M1icon tracer ammo may have lit up in the barrel also.

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