No Serial Number?

[manteo97]

Whoa.....let's just back up the truck. For those with access to the Carbine Club's Newsletters, have a look at #350, and then #330. Is Frogm1's one of those, a presentation carbine? It would be interesting to find out if his carbine is all STD PRO. The photo in NL350 shows a STD PRO receiver without a S/N. The S/N has not been removed, it never was there. The "S" and the "O" have not been double struck, they are slightly deeper, and looks like frogm1's photo (except for the mottled bluing). This carbine in NL350 is all STD PRO, and had no cartouche nor acceptance proofs, and is registered with the Feds. You cannot "buff off" a serial number, it's too deep. It would have to be ground off, and like the other examples shown in this thread, grinding is clearly visible.

[firstflabn]

I would guess the serial number stamping is typically somewhere around .010" - .015" deep. Can't someone with a similar featured SP offer to measure from a known point to the peak of the serial number area of their receiver for comparison? I looked at Kuhnhausen and he doesn't give any dimensions useful for this. Anybody have receiver drawings? I would think the tolerance is less than the depth of the stamping.

[frankderrico]

There are more than one way to buff down steel without grinding. The serial number could also be filled and then taken down to original dimensions.
I know it would be work but it could be done.
The M1A1 I looked at in Dec. had the SN very neatly removed and showed no loss of metal.
Like I said earlier, I would like to see what it has in it also.....Frank

[Tired Retired]

The prime visible evidence is that the original longitudinal mill marks are specifically missing in the area in question. The fact that the original mill marks are present on the far left of the area show that the area has been ground down. That grinding (whether with file, wire wheel or brillo pad) left the horizontal marks in the metal that are visible under the uneven bluing. The rear slope of the area has a different "edge" as it starts down in a rearward direction. I would be curious as to what the receiver looks like under the wood line.

As far as the stamp, I was referring to the "double edges" which are visible in the outer curves of the S and the O. It appears that someone was "rotating" or "wrapping" a flat stamp/tool around the curved shape of the receiver.

The first picture posted shows the rail on the right side has a lot of wear, so it has been fired a lot. The stock also shows wear from use (the crack behind the recoil plate), etc. I am curious as to why the recoil plate has dried cosmo on it but there does not appear to be any on the receiver. Same with the sight - cosmo and/or rust. As mentioned before, the sight has been installed backwards. I would think if this was intended as a presentation carbine, it and its pieces would have not be stored in cosmoline.

Frog, you have done a great job with these pictures. They are clean, shape and full of light. It would be very interesting to see detailed pictures of the entire carbine. There may be some valuable parts on the carbine. Of course, it may be a great shooter. Have you had a chance to measure the muzzle erosion? What kind of shape is the crown in?

[painter777]

Frog,
Sure be nice to see whats in it !
Give us a parts run down. Pictures and markings.

Good Luck,
Charlie-painter777

[FTD1167]

I don't think it ever had a number. The proximity of and the Serial number is very close (.040") and about same depth.
Hard to erase one without the other. And would Bubba go to the trouble of re-stamping STD.PRO. with exact size font stamps.
Under left side over top .620" Thats what mine measures.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

frogm1,

If the remainder of your carbine has early SP parts in original condition, and it certainly may, the parts alone have considerable value.

Depending how much you paid for it you may be able to recoup your money by selling the parts to a collector and then discard the receiver.

If you want to take photos of the parts and post them here their originality and approximate value can be determined.

[DaveN]

I've learned so much from this thread.
frogm1 why not confront(in a nice friendly way of course) the guy you bought it from and tell him what you learned. maybe he knows nothing or maybe he knows everything. people do strange things when facing doing hard time. You sounded like a good honest guy until you said you would sell it. even if you do sell it it's not worth much(maybe parts) and then you have to live with yourself.

I responded from page two but leave my comment, so if the carbine proves to be legit and is some kind of proven special rifle great. Just be careful.

[Bruce McAskill]

The rear sight in the pictures should be carefully checked. It appears to be a reproduction and not an original. If it's fake then the rest of the carbine is most likely too. The S in STD also appears to be incorrect in the pictures.

[Hercules Powder]

I was just looking at the photos in the ImageShack of the receiver, flipping between the shots of the front and of the back of the receiver. May be it is just the way I am looking at it but is the STD. PRO. engraved instead of stamped. Those letters look different to me than the lettering on the front of the receiver.