Confusing Enfield No4 Mk 1 (T) markings and look

[zak2013]

Some extra pics for comments on how far this rifle has been altered
I keep finding marks and numbers each time I look. I think the magazine is an addition. It has 48L1855 on it. Plus S in a square and B on it. The "plugged" holes appear to be the original screws ground off judging by the internal pic. I think the butt has been smoothed off removing the original scope number and serial number. The bolt head has No.2 on it indicating some wear (but bullet test in muzzle shows very little wear). The fore end cap has letters SM on which I dont know what they mean. Butt plate only has broad arrow mark.

[Roger Payne]

Hi Paul,
Your rifle metalwork is definitely the real thing but I suspect most of the furniture is replacement. The butt is a replacement (unless there are filled in cheekpiece screw holes that have escaped me), the mag bears a Long Branch serial number & was made by Savage in North America. The rear sight is a ROF Faz & the triggerguard is Savage. The triangular swivel is a commercial replacement for the military item, which latter has a shorter shank so that it cannot spin through 360 degrees without fouling the wire loop on the guard. Difficult to say if the forend & guards are original - they could be, & certainly a 44 BSA would have left the factory originally decked out in walnut. However, as Peter will tell you most of these rifles have been through repairs & refurbs & armourers would fit whatever component came to hand first & was suitable, rather than looking for another part made by BSA or Long Branch etc. The SM stands for Singer Manufacturing - they made many small parts for the No4 & its original rear sight would probably have been made there (they used SM & the date till 1943 & then their factory code of N67).

Don't feel downhearted by this, it doesn't really matter if some parts have been replaced - you have already indicated that it shoots well. But I'd still want to get pads, a cheekpiece & the correct short shank swivel fitted......!

ATB

[zak2013]

Phew. This rifle must have been through a few hands. There are parts from all over the world. Still. I like it and will continue to shoot it. I will get some pads for it and maybe in the future do a full restoration. I probably wont get my hands on an original scope or even the mounts but I will enjoy the challenge of iron sight shooting (as I always have with other rifles). I really appreciate all of the comments here. I set out to find out more about this rifle and you have not let me down. I will keep you updated of progress. Paul

[bigduke6]

Paul, Hope to see you later today in the meantime I would look at selling the hinged band at the front , you will probably get half of what you paid for the rifle or more ( would help towards the pads and bracket)

(pic 2 second row)

[ssj]

Fascinating, thanks....

[bigduke6]

Paul, good to meet up and put a face to a name and I,ll get the info we talked about to you ASAP, regarding the front band I,m sure its a very early or one off a trials rifle etc, if you post some pics I,m sure someone will tell you what or when etc, but there was a hinged band IIRC going for around $300 somewhere....

If you do the bits I pointed out its just a matter of time waiting for the scope if you do go for one, like I said they don't come cheap but they don't go down in price....plus there will be a good few appearing on ebay amongst the normal run of the mill ones, and one final thing please don't be tempted by a repro as that's all they are and for the price save a bit more and get a real Mk1 or 11 ....

[Peter Laidler]

I second that sentiment about those repros Big Boy......... Absolute piles of shi............. er...... What is the word I'm looking for now?

[Patrick Chadwick]

My FAC has this number on it now is this illegal?

IMOH there is no problem.

For present-day authorities, the number on the rifle is to identify the rifle. The number in your licence is to identify the weapon (in this case a rifle) as being licensed to you - and nobody else. As long as those two numbers match, you have a legally licensed rifle. It does not matter who, once upon a time, applied that number. It has nothing to do with "originality" as collectors may understand it. What does matter is the match, which is why it is an offence to alter it unless the alteration is performed by an authorised person or agency (e.g. gunsmith rebarrelling a rifle and, of course, ensuring that it is reproofed!) and the alteration is duly recorded in the licence. Removing the number without remarking the weapon is a criminal act.

I realise that this simple explanation will not match legislation in all countries around the world, but the basic principle should apply in most European countries - the number is an identification that must match the licence, and removal or unauthorised alteration is a criminal offence, because it prevents or falsifies the identification.

[zak2013]

IMOH there is no problem

Very much appreciated your comments. Thats put my mind at rest. Bigduke6 made a similar comment. I can now sleep at nights. LOL

[zak2013]

Following discussion of the front HINGED band on my No4 (T) i was wondering if anyone could comment on its history? Is it a genuine Enfield piece and/or a training rifle piece? Attached a few photos but cant quite make out the stamping mark.