Canadian Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk I (T)

[Warren]

Canadian LB snipers were being delivered for testing and evaluation
Here's two that are way out of the accepted range
Attachment 80370

[stencollector]

Warren: The serial numbers on the bottom two rifles (ASE40-8 and ASE40-3): Are those numbers indicative of a project batch? I think we have seen numbering similar to that elsewhere in the LB rifles....was it the lightened series?

[Surpmil]

Very interesting Warren, thank you for sharing that.

Transcript of the text:

Measure of Jump 13 May 1944
The following data was compiled at the request of Maj. B.L. Anderson of D.12, C.M.H.Q. The figures were arrived at by aligning the axis of the bore on the horizontal line of a screen at a range of 71 feet 7" the bore being relayed [sic] after each shot by sighting the telescope on a mark coinciding with the correct original lay. The shots fired struck the screen above the horizontal line with the amount in minutes determined by rule measurement in inches transferring to minutes, assuming that one minute of angle at 71 feet 7" is equal to .25 inches. By adding the drop due to gravity, in this case 0.166 inches a reasonably accurate figure is obtained. Figures given are the distances of five shots fired from each rifle, above the centre of the horizontal line measured in inches.

Seems logical to assume that LB would make up the regular rifles for contracts, [No.4 Mk.I* or No.4 Mk.I*(T)] in the usual way, but if they wanted rifles for experimental purposes, they might have made them up from suitable actions/rifles which could have been pre-production or early production rifles that were not accounted for in a contract, or were rejected for some defect that did not make them unsuitable for whatever trial was being conducted.

There's a rifle in Without Warning that was made up as a gift for Maj. Hahn, who was head of the War Production Board in WWII, and in WWI chief of the intelligence section of the Canadian Corps. They used a recycled No.4(T) action no less; the plugged rear pad holes can be seen in the photo. You'd think a presentation like that would use a new receiver, but perhaps new receivers were all accounted for? I've got an un-numbered 1943 action that has the 4BA holes in the receiver with a piece of a tap broken off in one of them, and the holes set back about 1/4". A "missing link" screw-up from 1943? Maybe. Someone later built it up into a sporter and it turned up at a local gunshow.

In other words I don't think they threw much away at Long Branch if it could possibly be used for some purpose at some time.

Too bad no one asked these gents when they were alive as now we can only make what seem like logical guesses.

[Giove]

Thank you all.

Unfortunately I have only these pictures.

Initially I thought it would be one of the italian Enfield sniper rifles, but several things not convincing.

Is normal the lack of scope serial number on the butt?

[Roger Payne]

No, it's not normal Giove, you would generally expect to see a scope number there regardless of whether you were looking at a UK or Canadian set up 4T. The only exceptions were the No4 (T) Less telescope rifles, but AFAIK these consist only of British rifles, not Canadian.

[Giove]

Thank you Roger.

Another picture:

[Lee Enfield]

....snip....There's a rifle in Without Warning that was made up as a gift for Maj. Hahn, who was head of the War Production Board in WWII, and in WWI chief of the intelligence section of the Canadian Corps. They used a recycled No.4(T) action no less; the plugged rear pad holes can be seen in the photo. You'd think a presentation like that would use a new receiver, but perhaps new receivers were all accounted for? ...snip....

Specific to Major Hahn's rifle, it was a mounting trial's rifle which was sporterized.

Originally it was built as a standard sniper and then the pads were removed and the rifle was converted to the side mount pattern. Presumably this was done to gauge whether there was a negative effect upon accuracy by changing mount patterns.

There is another rifle illustrated in "British Sniper" which was similarly converted from standard to side mount.

One of the things about the side mount, the mounting pattern is standardized between the side mounts.

Quite possibly Hahn's rifle was used as a/the test bed for the REL-TP and G&H high/med/long/short mounts, before being assembled with the production G&H pattern mount.

[stencollector]

The ASE type serial numbers were bugging me as I knew I had seen them before. Had a flash of memory and sure enough, in "without Warning" the ASC and ASE serials are explained as "ASC being for scout rifles, "ASE" being for section rifles. (pages 57 and 58).

Both these rifles are on the list of known examples given in the book: ASE40-3 had a 3-1/2 power Gimbell scope while ASE40-8 had a 5 power Gimbell scope. Both had mounts described as "Long Base Fired".


Whew, now I will be able to sleep tonight without those serial numbers nagging me. I knew I had seen them somewhere.

[BushyFromOz]

Bloody nice bit of timber on that though

[Giove]

Another fake L.B. sniper, I think. What do you think about it?

Attachment 81210Attachment 81211Attachment 81212