Latest Acquisition: .455 Eley/Webley Colt New Service

[Lee Enfield]

Does anyone know the history of these WW1 dated Colt revolvers in .455? I'm assuming that it was a British government contract because we couldn't make enough Webley revolvers of our own.

I thought that British officers in WW1 purchased their own revolvers or sometimes did?

There were approximately 100,000 New Services manufactured from 1914 thru 1917 and most were chambered in .455.
Most were British and Canadian orders, probably more than 1/2 were "commercial sales".

During the same period approx 79,000 S&W First ("Triple Lock") and Second Model Hand Ejectors .455s were manufactured with probably a higher ratio to Gov't sales.

So roughly 160-180,000 Colt and S&W .455s into the storm.

[imarangemaster]

My understanding was, that until the advent of WW2, from the days of the spread of the Empire, through the first World War, British Officers were all "Gentlemen" members of the "Upper Class." They were expected to provide their own sidearms. During WW2, while some still purchased their own side arms, they could be issued a Webley MK IV .38/200 or No 1 Enfield in .38/200.

Webley and Enfield produced sufficient revolvers the their colonial wars, the enormity of World War One overwhelmed British production capabilities. The American company Remington, produced P14 Enfield in .303 for the British. While it was the British government that requested Colt and Smith & Wesson produce revolvers for the war effort in .455 Webley, I do not know the exact process that got the American made .455s into the hands of the officers.

[imarangemaster]

I checked the serial number again, and it was made in 1915. here's the pics:













It really is a good 75-80%, though the pictures don't show it well. The book (below) woud have a higher value, though, the the actual sold auctions on gunbroker in the last 3 months, and the 25 current listings, some of which are in the high 600s and 700s. The market is really flat now. We see it at the shop, as we are regularly dropping used and collectable gun prices. Old Winchesters, are all going for well below book.

[Flying10uk]

My understanding was, that until the advent of WW2, from the days of the spread of the Empire, through the first World War, British Officers were all "Gentlemen" members of the "Upper Class." They were expected to provide their own sidearms.

I have mentioned it before but during the 1940's, when my father was still at school, at one of the schools he attended, the headmaster had served as a British army officer during WW1. My father wasn't interested and didn't like sports but he did like the annual school's sports day, not for anything to do with sports, but because the headmaster would get his WW1 Webley service revolver out for use as a starting pistol. Without getting political, sadly in the UK if a headmaster was to attempt something similar today the consequences may, possibly not be good.

[imarangemaster]

When I was an Investigator at the Sheriff's Office, I had a partner who was British born (and now US citizen) and was a "Boy Soldier" in the English Army, enlisting at 16. He did 6 years in the army, and once told me that most officers were still basically from the "upper Class" in the 70s and 80s.

[Daan Kemp]

It has to do with the way the Brits select, decvelop and appoint officers.

[imarangemaster]

It was much the same in the US until WW2, hence the term "Officer and a Gentleman". I WW2, the officer corp was a polyglot. While the majority were college educated men, the huge numbers of draftees generated a need that exceeded the college educated pool available. My dad was a Staff Sgt, and was offered a commission if he reenlisted forKorea. Born in 1911 , he had an 8th grade education in an orphanage, but was self educated in later life..

[imarangemaster]

I forgot to add, that he turned down the offer of a commission to re-enlist. He served on Iwo Jima from day 6, and had seen enough war for a lifetime.

[Peter Laidler]

Interesting thread, especially regarding the Officer 'class' comments. Certainly as one who started as a Craftsman and slowly up the junior ranks and left as a regular as a Corporal......., only to re-join as a reservist as a sergeant a couple of years late. Then Commissioned.

What I always used to say to Junior - and senior ranks is this. NEVER treat anyone above you as a 'superior' They are not..... They are simply SENIOR....., in rank only! That said, treat and address them as you would any senior, with respect without kow-towing or knee-bending.

If you disagree, mention to them privately that '...... I'm not quite sure that what you've just passed on - or said - or indicated - is quite correct, because.......' Then add why. For example. When an instruction came down to, say, ring punch an ovalised hole, it might 'cure' the ovalised hole for a day, but the ovalised part is still weak. Just say that it'd be better, albeit take an hour longer, to overbore and re-bush.

If he listens and come up with an answer that is pure rubbish, you can say, politely that you think that it is rubbish - and that's why the blokes think that he isn't as clever as he thinks he is. You have explained the correct answer and HE knows that YOU know. But all done respectfully.

Don't forget, Officers aren't superior. They are only senior. Not quite as fearful as the REALLY senior ranks............ The Warrant Officers!

[Sapper740]

No love for Win 231 or 700X? I also loaded a lot of my Cowboy Action cartridges with FF to get the smoke and smell.