Question about 30 round clips and bayonet lugs on Carbines in WW2

[perrydcox]

Simple question? Does anyone have any vintage WW2 images showing any soldier carrying a late issue M1 Carbine with a 30 round magaze or a weapon having the bayonet lug? Most all the books refer to these modifications as being from late 1944 to early 1945, but I've yet to see any verified footage or still images showing a soldier with either. Hard to find the guns without them in the Korean conflict, but incredibly hard to find images of them in WW2. I'd love some images if they can be supplied. Thanks much! Perry

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[jeep]

Yes bayonet lugs new sites and 30 shot magazines were after ww2. Refits did not make it back to the WW2 battlefields. No bayonets and L-shaped flip sites were the standard with 15 shot mags. The M-3 trench knife was comman for those that did not have bayonets like smg,carbine,morter crews,paratroopers,mg crews. The M3 trench knife design was used for the Carbine bayonet.

[Bruce McAskill]

It has been debated a long time if any carbines with the type 3 barrel band made it into the war before it ended. It seems they did not appear in Europe till after the war ended there. There are a couple of photos reported as being taken on Okinawa during the battle there where a carbine with a type 3 band was spotted. But that is hotly debated too as some say the photos are mislabeled and were taken after the war ended in the Pacific. The type 2 and 3 adjustable rear sight did make it into combat as they were being installed in the spring of 1944. The type 3 barrel band didn't come into use till about October 1944. The 30 round magazines really didn't appear till around the time Inland went into full production of the M2 carbine in April 1945.

[INLAND44]

Bayo lugs and adjustable sights made it to the Pacific. See picture from the battle for Iwo Jima. This carbine has the bayo lug and appears to have the flip sight.

[perrydcox]

Yes bayonet lugs new sites and 30 shot magazines were after ww2. Refits did not make it back to the WW2 battlefields. No bayonets and L-shaped flip sites were the standard with 15 shot mags. The M-3 trench knife was comman for those that did not have bayonets like smg,carbine,morter crews,paratroopers,mg crews. The M3 trench knife design was used for the Carbine bayonet.

Thank you for your response Jeep. The original images I've seen do support what you say with the exception of the adjustable rear sight. It's a bit odd that pretty much "all" the collector books show these modifications to Carbine production being implemented in later 1944. Many months before the war's end. I suppose it's possible the modifications were made but never really made it to the field in time to see actual war time. I have seen the wider type two barrel bands in WW2 images, but not the 30 round clips and bayo lugs. Seems I've seen some adjustable sights in WW2 images as well. Note in Tom Laemlien's excellent book, "The M1 Carbine" which is a highly recommended book for WW2 and Korean War vintage imagery, shows on page 44. left image #68, an image of s soldier shoulering a Carbine with an adjustable rear sight and type two barrel band. A study of the image appears to be from WW2, and not later. The claims the photo is from 1944.

---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

Bayo lugs and adjustable sights made it to the Pacific. See picture from the battle for Iwo Jima. This carbine has the bayo lug and appears to have the flip sight.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...bayonetlug.jpg

Thaks Inland44.... I appreciate it!! I have what I feel to be a completely correct 4-45 Inland with Bayo lug and adjustable rear sight. (Ser 71xxxxx). Love that image!

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------

Bayo lugs and adjustable sights made it to the Pacific. See picture from the battle for Iwo Jima. This carbine has the bayo lug and appears to have the flip sight.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...bayonetlug.jpg

Thanks so much! That's a great image! You don't see many for sure.. but since pretty much all the books mention these late changes were implented from about mid 44 til early 45, it makes sense that at least some of them would've made it to the field.

---------- Post added at 03:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 PM ----------

Thanks Bruce M and Inland44.. Great commentary and very helpful.

[Bill Ricca]

Bayonet Lugs were delivered from Mid 44 thru Mid 45, I have the contracts. That does not mean they got in the assembly line that early. As you know only Inland and Winchester made carbines with Bayonet Lugs attached.

Lots of Carbines were rebuilt during WWII, some with Bayonet Lugs. I have a document showing the loss of 165,885 small arms, (not including machine guns nor sub machine guns) in Europe from June 4 thru Dec 31, 1944.

Just add on the rest of the war time, the other theaters, the Navy and Marine Corps, and you will find lots of guns lost. That means many, many, many were restored back after battles.

As already stated above, production of 30 Round Magazines did not start until April of 1945.

[Bill Hollinger]

This photo is reported to be in Italy

Us Fifth Army In Italy
Amer. infantrymen chatting as they assemble & try out rifles they have chosen at hillside ammunition & supply station overlooking valley & the hills beyond on the Italian front in the Appennine Mountains.
Location: Italy
Date taken: April 1945
Photographer: Margaret Bourke-White
Attachment 20538
Now, a simple search of the photographer Margaret Bourke-White will tell you that she only photographed during WWII so you be the judge!

I don't have a clue as to the date of the picture below.

[browningautorifle]

Sgt Westhoven has a very scarce pattern of bayonet lug there. I wonder if he has it as a vet bring back? Now, to find him...

[frankderrico]

That looks like a HOWA bayo lug (type two band). Could be a post war Jaspanese rebuild. He also looks like he has a 1945 pack on.
My FIL served in the ocupation force in Japan. We have some staged photos that are simular. One almost identical, except he is holding a Garand. So I wonder if the photo is post war. JMT.....Frank

[Dave-In-Maine]

That looks like a HOWA bayo lug (type two band).

Rear sight looks funny as well, as well as the sling attachment--it doesn't seem to go into the sling well on the correct side of the stock.

My $0.02