Camp Perry Matches of 1918

[Jim Tarleton]

I found a record of the Marines participating in the NRA National Matches at Camp Perry in 1918. I didn't think they had a Camp Perry Match in 1918. The Matches weren't canceled during the war?

Jim

Information

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[Calif-Steve]

Marksmanship training during a war? Odd notion.

[Jim Tarleton]

Cute, Steve, but I get the point. In a war where the Marines had escalated to their largest size in history (to 64,000 from 17,000) to meet the manpower needs of the war (14,000 Marines in the AEF), it just seems a little odd that Marines would be spared to travel the country to participate in matches. Were there no war time shortages? Marines were being trained at unprecedented numbers and at an accelerated pace, and some went into combat with as little as a few weeks of training. I guess the dedication to matches in those days was intense.

Jim

[Bob S]

Yes, the National Matches were fired in 1918. However, the prescribed Service Rifle was the M1917, NOT the M1903. It was also also the year of the first Small Arms Firing School. The purpose was to familiarize shooters with the new M1917 rifle.

Pix are of an experimental rear sight for the M1917 that is believed to have been the prototytpe "National Match" sight. It has one minute click adjustments for both windage and elevation.





The sight was not produced in time for the matches; in fact the only other example of this sight that I have seen is one fuzzy picture in one of Bruce Canfield's books. The matches were fired with the regular issue service sight. Data books printed for the matches had graphics illustrating the "hold off" required for various strength and value of wind.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[John Beard]

As I recall, the 1917 National Matches were canceled, but not the 1918 National Matches. And as Bob S. pointed out, the matches were fired with the Model 1917 rifle and, specifically, Remington Model 1917 rifles.

And, as I further recall, the scores averaged substantially higher than any matches fired previously with the Model 1903 rifle. That did not go over well with Army Ordnance.

J.B.

[John Beard]

Yes, the National Matches were fired in 1918. However, the prescribed Service Rifle was the M1917, NOT the M1903. It was also also the year of the first Small Arms Firing School. The purpose was to familiarize shooters with the new M1917 rifle.

Pix are of an experimental rear sight for the M1917 that is believed to have been the prototytpe "National Match" sight. It has one minute click adjustments for both windage and elevation.

The sight was not produced in time for the matches; in fact the only other example of this sight that I have seen is one fuzzy picture in one of Bruce Canfield's books. The matches were fired with the regular issue service sight. Data books printed for the matches had graphics illustrating the "hold off" required for various strength and value of wind.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

Bob,

The sight on your rifle looks like it may be a British sight. I note in your pictures that it appears taller than a standard Model 1917 sight. I speculate that the range graduations (elevation) do not match those of a Model 1917 sight.

J.B.

[Rick the Librarian]

For what it is worth, the rear sight on Bob's M1917 appears to be the same as an experimental sight described and illustrated in Bruce Canfield's "US Infantry Weapons of the First World War", p. 84.

[Bob S]

Rick:

Yes, that's the picture that I refer to.

John:

Definitely not a British sight. It's made on a standard US sight leaf.

The Marine Corps shop that was near the Boiler Shop in PNSY also started development on an "improved" sight for the M1917 when it appeared that the M1917 might supplant the M1903 as THE Service rifle. The Marine Corps sight was not a "match" sight, but it did have windage adjustment. I have only seen fuzzy pictures of it, no physical examples, but the sight looked a lot like the last sight that was used on the BAR, with the windage knob through the right "ear" on the receiver bridge. (The first BAR's had the very same rear sight leaf as the M1917 rifle).

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Calif-Steve]

Conducting National Matches during a war does make sense. More good shooters in uniform, more good shooters exposed to match conditions and much more interest from Regiment up to Chief of Staff. Also, realize no budget restrictions. Lots of money for just about everything. Not cute, but sorry.

[Jim Tarleton]

Fine looking sight. How does it shoot?

Jim