Odd Luger

[Big Daddy]

Recently got a Luger pistol in .45 ACP. The only markings are a three digit serial number (low) surmounted by the letter F. Does anyone know anything about this pistol? TIA.

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[Johnny Peppers]

Recently got a Luger pistol in .45 ACP. The only markings are a three digit serial number (low) surmounted by the letter F. Does anyone know anything about this pistol? TIA.

How about some pictures?
John Martz made some copies of the original .45 ACP Luger submitted to Springfield Armory for testing, but if I remember correctly they were cobbled together out of a highly modified standard Luger. Also, Mike Krause has been making a dead ringer copy of the original .45 ACP Luger for a number of years.

[villiers]

Several German manufacturers:

Waffen-Werle in Dudenhofen bei Speyer

Waffentechnische Werkstätte Nedbal Ges.m.b.H. - Raritaeten

[Big Daddy]

I'll be giving more details later this week, but right now the pistol is in the hands of a local Luger affectianado and if he is correct in what he thinks, it's a pistol I'll probably never shoot. I'll know more by the end of the week.

[Johnny Peppers]

I'll be giving more details later this week, but right now the pistol is in the hands of a local Luger affectianado and if he is correct in what he thinks, it's a pistol I'll probably never shoot. I'll know more by the end of the week.

What does he think it is?

[Big Daddy]

Ok here's what we do know. First it is a custom job made in Switzerland in 1922. The gunmaker is unknown but his (her?) initials on the inside of the frame was L.v.T. He assumes that the v is for von or van. Only 16 are known by this maker and probably no more than 30 were made between 1919 and 1928. All were done to the customer's specs. Some were in the usual calibers but at least one was in 9mm Largo. That one's in a safe in Spain. Some were inlaid with precious metals others plain. The one that I have is a dark gray in colour with a 5 inch barrel. It came with a shoulder stock that appears never to have been used. It has 4 mags, of which only one shows any wear. There's also a form of a drum mag that holds 25 rounds also doesn't appear to have been used. The woman I bought it from said it belonged to her father. As she has no children, she didn't want someone who didn't appreciate it to get it. My biggest problem is that it appears to NEVER to have been registered. I do not want get in trouble with government but on the other hand I don't want them to get it either. So what do I do with it?

[villiers]

I once translated a long report by a German gunsmith on the problems he encountered while attempting to get a .45 cal Luger to repeat. Apparently the .45 just does not provide sufficient energy to work the toggle action. The .45 cal Lugers delivered by DWM to the U.S. had to be fed with a specially loaded cartridge. Take a look at the Werle website mentioned above to see the video clip of his side loading .45 Luger. vAt least he´s got his to functiuon reliably.

[Johnny Peppers]

The standard loading of the .45 ACP certainly contained sufficient energy to cycle the Luger toggle action. The ammunition used in the initial tests was standard Frankford Arsenal ball ammo loaded to a nominal 800 fps. The .45 ACP ammunition sent from Germany was loaded to a slower fps. In the tests Frankford ammunition was loaded to 10, 15, and 25 percent decreased pressure, and the pistol functioned perfectly. Most of the failures to feed involved the action not coming completely into battery with a new round. This happened with both the Frankford Arsenal ammunition as well as the Luger ammunition. Very little spring tension is remaining in the Luger action as the breech block moves completely into battery.
In the initial tests the Frankford Arsenal ammunition averaged 809 fps while the Luger ammunition averaged 763 fps.

[Bruce McAskill]

Is the shoulder stock numbered to the gun? If so you will not have a problem with BATF as the gun with the stock if made originally together then it is 100% collectable. This would fall into the same group as a Broomhandle Mauser with shoulder stock,Browning Hi-Power with original stock and Lugers with original stocks. An after market stock is not acceptable.

[Johnny Peppers]

Is the shoulder stock numbered to the gun? If so you will not have a problem with BATF as the gun with the stock if made originally together then it is 100% collectable. This would fall into the same group as a Broomhandle Mauser with shoulder stock,Browning Hi-Power with original stock and Lugers with original stocks. An after market stock is not acceptable.

The Broomhandles, Lugers, and High Powers were specifically exempt by the BATF. A copy of any of those pistols fabricated by an individual is not, regardless of the serial number. John Martz made copies of the Luger carbine with a shoulder stock, but had to make the barrels 16" long to be legal.
Not all Lugers are legal with a shoulder stock, but specifically the WWI LP.08 (Artillery) and Navy, and the commercial Luger carbine are exempt as a group whether the stock serial number matches or not. On any of the mentioned Lugers a reproduction stock is also legal.