De-sporterizing a No.1 Mk.3 Lithgow, have a question.

[Cb750k]

Is it necessary to have the stock bolt plate and the two copper shim plates installed in the lower fore stock on a No.1 Mk.3 enfield? I'm de sporterizing my dads old 1921 Lithgow I inhereted and that's the last thing I'm left with doing, the sporterized lower fore stock had the plate and shims. The complete Aussie set of furniture I managed to find did not, it fits nice and tight to the body of the action but there was a small crack on the rear end of the forestock where the butt stock bolt would sit. I glued the crack and have it all fit and assembled with no play butt to muzzle, I feel the bolt plate would add some reinforcement to the back face of the forestock but if its not 100% necessary I'd rather not carve the hole for it.

What do you all think, should I leave it be and hit the range or install the shims and butt stock bolt plate?

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[Aussie48]

Not all lithy's had the recoil plates it depended on the timber selected, early lithy's used Italian Walnut no pads, Queensland Maple and coachwood was prone to split so most if not all coachwood stocks had the plates fitted at some stage. The plates weren't fitted new but later by armourers or during the FTR programs as required. Hope this helps.

[Peter Laidler]

I think the copper blocks were fitted new on all Q-maple and all subsequent replacement woodwork Aussie! I could be wrong but we had stacks of new woodwork still in the wrapping at Bandiana and also in the stores at Ngaruawahia and they were all fitted with them. I definately remember this because being a pom, I hadn't seen these before, just standard pommy made fore-ends without the recoil blocks so I asked my boss ASM Clive Connors about them. Of course, he'd seen both sorts and told me.

Another boss, Jock Annandale didn't like the copper blocks. He was old school and told me that if they were worn, just patch them out in the usual way we patched out worn draws. It was Jock who also told me that the notion that a short screw going into the end-grain would hold the copper plates secure was something for the fairies!!!!!!!!

Never saw many again but some of our EY rifles that plodded on until the early 70's had them. We just patched out and got rid of them

[Cb750k]

Cheers guys, I think I will install both the recoil plates as well as the butt stock bolt plate. They both seem to serve a purpose as far as I can see, I'm not sure what wood I'm dealing with really. The butt stock is SLAZ42 stamped under the rear plate, so I'm guessing maple or coachwood. Can't hurt the way I look at it, thanks for the input.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Those little plates are fairly important in fore-ends made from softer timbers, and particularly Coachwood.

The "recoil" proper is transferred to the butt / firer's shoulder, via the locking shoulders and the "socket" / butt connection.

Because of inertia, the fore-end, being a separate piece of material, will try to stay put.

Hence the "recoil" plates and the angled trigger guard acting to keep the wood firmly attached to the metal.

Mauser-types have FRONT locking and a FRONT recoil shoulder on the receiver; not a lot of point doing that with a REAR locking action in a two-piece stock.

Then again, there's the "ultra-light" rifle that the Canadians were fooling around with, the J5550, based on a radically "trimmed" No.4 action.

It was quickly established that what they needed in this beast was a decent lug at the REAR of the receiver to transfer the substantial recoil into the glorified toothpick they used as a stock. What they ended up with was a fairly shallow "lug" at the rear; a remnant of the cut-away "socket".

The two examples I have seen seem to indicate they were still having "issues" when the project was abandoned.

But wait! There's more....

The plate in the rear of the fore-end is not a "tie-plate" put there to reinforce the timber (that's what threaded brass rod was invented for), but to stop the stock-bolt loosening.

By the time the No4 came along, the engineers had finally discovered LOCKING WASHERS!!

[Cb750k]

Cheers Bruce, love hearing more about these old LE's. I found some time last night to instal the recoil plates as well as the butt bolt plate. There was a bit of play between stock and action that I found, things are nice and snug now. Will be shooting it this coming week for the first time, very excited to put some rounds through it. Have tracked down an Aussie sling for it as well as a jungle green bandolier and stripper clips, just need a 1920-21 bayonet withing the Axxxxx serial range and I'm all done.

The only part that's not numbers matching is the nose cap, but maybe I'll find one in the right number range at some point. Bolt, action, barrel, rear sight are all matching still.

[Cb750k]

So I realized I'm missing the for end spring and stud that's under the nose cap, I have the spring but don't have the for end stud. Does anyone have one they'd part with or know where I could buy one? Will just the spring suffice, or are both parts needed?

[Aussie48]

PM me your address and will post one over for you I have a few spares
Cheers
Richard

[CINDERS]

Bruce did miss one minor point, if the locking plate is put into the rear of the lower fore-stock if you ever take the weapon apart again afterwards for goodness sake take the fore woods off first.
If you try the butt first yes you may succeed in getting it off but it will spread the lock plate with the square end of the stock bolt and could split the lower wood.
As I was uninformed did not know about this site and got away with it JUST..... few bits of filing for sharp edges and a tap here and there on the locking plate ears and all is good but a damn narrow squeak as I have seen a few No I Mk III's with split stocks just in front of the butt socket, from possible wrong removal of the butt first.

So I learnt that here a while ago when I joined up so I am indebted to the wise Pelicans that grace us with their hard earned knowledge......

[Peter Laidler]

Hey CB750k. If the nose cap isn't number matched then just fit it properly as per the EMER/EMEI bible. When it's hand fitted correctly then just re-number it. Just like a million Armourers have done sice 1910! It was just another job to the likes of us! End of problem. It ain't cheating, it's the way it is in the real world of the Armourers shops all over the world