Curious No32 MkIII, answers on a post card please????

[Simon]

I picked this up at Bisley over the weekend. To all intents and purposes it's a standard 32 MkIII but notice the odd turret design, then there's the different turret housing, the lack of OS Number, the lack of serial number and the oddest of all the makers mark of WW&S who supposedly never made the MkIII.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Simon.

P.S. Apologies in advance if the pics aren't up too much

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[breakeyp]

Without close up pictures of the markings, my first guess would be that it appears to be Israeli. Mine are buried in back and not readily available for comparison---the knobs appear to be right. I am sure Warren can comment.

[Peter Laidler]

Israeli and nothing is interchangeable. Had a go at one last month but the ocular end was totally different to the one shown!

[Simon]

Peter,

That arrangement on the Ocular end is a spot of Bubba style home Gunsmithing. It's actually two half rings that have been soldered on to increase the diameter of the tube.

The only markings on the tube are the ones shown reading as below

TEL SIGHTING
No32 MKIII
W W & S

[Roger Payne]

Simon,
Can you get any more detailed photo's of the markings by any chance? Wouldn't it be odd to be engraved with 'almost typical' British markings if it's Israeli? I've only seen a few Israeli scopes but they were all clearly engraved in Hebrew, although the drums do look to be of the same style in this case. It is odd that there are what seem to be British style markings but no OS number nor serial number. As you say Simon, the William Watson (I'm assuming the WW&S indicates this company) is not engraved on in the usual fashion, with the typical intertwined W's. And also as you say, they are generally only associated with production of Mk1 & Mk2 scopes. To me, the most puzzling thing about the scope is its manufacturer's marking, or could WW&S be somebody else other than Watson - even an Israeli concern, perhaps? Warren, do you know if the Israelis ever marked their scopes in British fashion rather than in Hebrew?

Alternatively, did Bubba, or the Israelis, or somebody else, modify a British scope? If they did, & if the markings on the tube are genuine, then they could have mutilated a very rare (pre-production???) scope indeed. But if you can get clearer pix Simon we could pass more informed comment on the markings. (I know from our phone call that you've done them in a hurry & are probably knaXXXered tonight, but maybe tomorrow??).

Cheers.

[Simon]

Hopefully these two show the markings better, surprising what a little talcum powder will do.

These are the only markings visible on the scope body.

You can also see where the half rings have been soldered to the tube to increase the diameter at the Ocular end.

[Peter Laidler]

It was William Watson and Co as opposed to SON DRP. I had one to fix a month ago and even the drum configuration was like this one. I say Israeli just on my Mk1 and 2 experience. But sufficient to say, this ain't kosher......... If you'll excuse the pun! Ho ho ho...., just had to get that one in!

[Simon]

Just found the below info on a quick Google search.



The Wm. Watson company was founded in 1837 in London.

In the 1840s, The firm sold lanterns, slides and associated equipment.

In 1868 the firms name was changed to W. Watson & Son and they were located at 313 High Holborn, London. They continued at this address well into the 1940s.

In the late 1870s the firm began adding photographic equipment and quickly became one of the country's leading manufacturers of the Highest Class Photographic Instruments and Apparatus.

On 9 January, 1881 William Watson died.

In 1883 the firms name was changed to W. Watson & Sons for the Williams son, Charles Henry Watson joining business. In an 1883 kelly's business directory, it lists both Charles Henry Watson and Henry Watson associated with Watson & sons located at 23 Walton St, Aylesbury.

In the 1890s the business continued to grow and they advertised factories for instruments, Optical glass and cabinet work at Fullwood Rents W.C. and the warehouse and show room remaining at the 313 High Holborn.

In 1900 W. Watson & sons purchased the John Browning & Co.

In 1908 the firm became W. Watson & Sons Ltd.

In 1948 the business dissolved.

[Roger Payne]

Fair enough DPL, I was speaking from memory. But the markings are unusual are they not? I wonder what WW & S does stand for? Is it my eyes (quite probably), but is the gap between the front of the segment & the back of the turret casting greater than the norm? It might just be an effect of the angle of the photo. I suppose the easy way to check would be to try a bracket for fit....

ATB.

[Lee Enfield]

Israeli No. 32 sniper scopes: need info from owners of Isreali 32 scopes

If you go to this thread, you will see that the Israeli turret casting and ranging drums are quite different from this one.

And the Israeli tubes appear to be brass rather than steel.