6.5 Carcano reloading

[bob4wd]

Gentlemen-
I'm trying to develop a decent load for my Carcanos using lead bullets. The biggest ones that I've found are .266", which is just too small for my rifles, which measure at .267-.268". Keyholes are the norm with these bullets!
So, I'm thinking about having a custom resizing die made up at .268" or maybe even .269 (Lead should be no problem at these sizes), and squeezing some 7mm bullets through it. They run at .285", about 17 thou bigger.
So the question is what do you all think on the feasibility of this? Can a resize die squeeze that much down?
Or better, any sources out there for bigger bullets?
Any and all comments welcomed!
Thanks

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[Eaglelord17]

What type of bullets are you using? Round nose flat based? Personally I use pulled surplus 6.5 Carcano bullets which are flatbased round nose 160grn bullets (though I am almost out of those), with a fast powder to 'kick' it into the rifling.

Two things I have heard helps is having a flat based bullet which is heavy (160grn round nose in either the .266/.267 Hornady ones being the best option though a regular .264 dia works just not as well), and a faster powder (the original 6.5 Carcano round used a very fast burning rifle powder, most of the barrel design was actually based around extending the life due to the high burn rate of the powder).

[bob4wd]

What type of bullets are you using? Round nose flat based? Personally I use pulled surplus 6.5 Carcano bullets which are flatbased round nose 160grn bullets (though I am almost out of those), with a fast powder to 'kick' it into the rifling.

Two things I have heard helps is having a flat based bullet which is heavy (160grn round nose in either the .266/.267 Hornady ones being the best option though a regular .264 dia works just not as well), and a faster powder (the original 6.5 Carcano round used a very fast burning rifle powder, most of the barrel design was actually based around extending the life due to the high burn rate of the powder).

I'm using lead. Not jacketed. Flat base, semi-round nose.

[Eaglelord17]

Sorry I don't really have much to add then, I have no experience reloading lead rounds.

[mr.e moose]

I have a Saeco (Redding) 6.5mm GC mold that casts at .269. I sourced my sizers from Buffalo Arms, a .269 for seating GC for my Carcano's and a .265 for my Swedish Mauser's. Sizing a cast bullet down 3 or 4 thousands is quite doable but trying to size down 17 you will distort your crimping and grease grooves.

[Parashooter]

Lyman 266469, sized and lubed minimally in .266" die, groups OK, not great, at 100 yards from my M41 at ~1500 fps.

Attachment 73878Attachment 73879

[bob q]

A lot will depend on what rifle you are using . Does it have gain twist ? That tears up cast bullets . Is it an early rifle with a big .269 + groove barrel or a M-41 with grooves as small as .266 ? In the target posted it looks like those bullets are starting to tip.

[bob4wd]

Gentlemen- I have to commend you on your answers that were helpful, correct, and most importantly were direct and to the point. Thanks again.
Mr. Moose, I hadn't considered the effect on grease grooves, so that was a really good point. Forget that approach!
Parashooter, I disagree with your negative assertion on group quality. Seems to me that if you can get a three inch group from any open-sighted military rifle at 100 yards, that would be considered great in anybody's book. And all of them head shots! I'm at the approximate same velocity as you, using 16 grains of 2400, the so-called 200 yard universal load.
Bob q, I agree with the gain-twist rifling. BTW, a cut-down 1891 barrel, such as used in the 91-28 etc. might be even worse, as only the slow twist portion is left, and it's much too slow to stabilize these long bullets. My specific rifle (actually 3) are M38 types, which should be standard twist. All 3 suck with these loads, although one of them does group about 5 inches at 100 yards, so there is potential there. Somebody in the past life of this gun deepened and widened the rear sight notch, which doesn't help matters at all. I plan on trying the M1941 next, soon as I load more.
I did a bore slug, using a .266" bullet, on the "good" rifle, which showed that the bullet does contact all four lands, but one of the three grooves is not making full contact. Results not entirely unexpected, as the groove measurement across the two that do contact come out to .267".
Food for thought-- does this make bullet off- center in the barrel, and thus off-center in flight?
Would a longer overall length help, by getting the bullet nose right up to the start of rifling?
Paper patch? Ugh!
Maybe make a bullet expanding die to bump them up to .268-.269"?
Stick with my '06?

[vintage hunter]

M38 types, which should be standard twist.

AFAIK, the only 6.5mm Carcano to have standard twist is the M41, all others have gain twist.
What your rifle's bore condition like?
I don't have much experience in shooting lead bullets but I have enough to know that a rifle or pistol with a bore in much less than pristine condition is subject not to do well with lead bullets. I have a Winchester '92 and a TD Springfield with moderately pitted bores that're hopeless with lead but on a good day both are capable of 2''-3'' groups at 100yds with jacketed. I'm sure they exist but in 30 years of looking I've never been able to find a Carcano in 6.5mm that didn't have a bore that wasn't rough/pitted to some degree.

[bob4wd]

I haven't personally checked mine, but according to Richard Hobbs, the M38 is standard twist. Which,BTW, makes sense because the barrel is really too short for a gain twist rifling.
The kinda accurate one actually has a fairly decent bore, no pits and sharp rifling. The other two not so much! Your experience with the 92 and Trapdoor is not unusual, but a lttle atrange when you consider that they were both made for and used exclusively with lead bullets, back in the day.