butt disk interpretation/s

[4004757]

Can anyone please assist me with the interpretation of the butt disk on my 1915 Shtle Lithgow (Sweeper) Gun has heavy barrel and matching numbers on all parts and a bore thats like chrome thanks to the previous owner (now deceased as at 2012) at 90 years of age.

Information

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[Son]

Hardly a challenge.... Firstly, welcome to milsurps.com. You are among friends here.

The butt marking disc is not marked with military unit markings. I took a punt and googled "City of Brisbane Rifle Club" and came up (among others) the page linked here from 1915
14 Jun 1915 - CITY OF BRISBANE RIFLE CLUB.
In the middle of the page is a list of competition results, one name in the list is "A. Sweeper" I would say "S Sweeper" was the owner of the rifle, and a member of the above named club. Maybe if you follow it up you might find his name in the record books as well, giving your rifle almost 100years of providence in Aussie target shooting history.... would be very cool!

[4004757]

Thanks. The owner was not by this name but served in the 5th Battalion volunteer defence corps (qld)

[Bruce_in_Oz]

I think that rifle has an even more interesting history.

The heavy barrels were a post WW1 development. Interestingly, the profile of the "H" barrel matches that of the earlier Lee Enfield proper. With the advent of the SMLE, eventually the rules on barrel length were changed; hence the relative abundance of "range pattern" LEs floating about.

So, here we have a 1915 vintage rifle that has been officially fitted with a heavy barrel whilst in military service and then officially sold out of service. "1 MD" indicates "First Military District", i.e. Queensland. This location data was common until at least the early 1920s.

The fore-end timber does not look like the Italian walnut used for the butt; could it be Queesland "maple"? Or, is it a Beech item used in a WW1 or later repair?

Why put a heavy barrel on an early receiver? Allegedly, because the early Lithgows were very precisely made out of high-quality materials. There is a legend that the spec for the steel was downgraded sometime in the 1920s, and that is why the "H" rifles and subsequent "HT" snipers were all built on early actions.

The little shield stamp has a kangaroo in it. This is a variant of the Lithgow "brand". The barrel MAY have a date on it that might give you a better idea of its vintage.

If it has a rear sight fitted, and it should, this SHOULD be number-matched to the rest of the rifle. There should also be "SC" marked near the rear-sight bed.

The hole for the inner-band screw should also be filled with a wooden plug.

[4004757]

Wow...very interesting. The foreend timber has matching serial number, but the top timber has no numbers. The rear sight is fitted but has a different serial number. Nose cap has matching number as well. The barrel has 'HV' then below this 'SC' stamped behind the rear sight which I believe stands for high velocity Mk 7 ammo. Not sure what you mean about the hole in the inner band screw?

[4004757]

see attached barrel marks

[muffett.2008]

Rebarreled in 1938.
This rifle is the standard Range Pattern rifle issued as a replacement for rifles withdrawn from rifle club members at the beginning of the war.
The rifles may or may not have been returned to their original owners, those lucky enough to get the original rifle back were treated to a fully refurbed rifle, those unlucky ones received rifles dated from 1942-44, also fully refurbed and heavy barrels.
I would be inclined to follow the original owner via QRA records, the last owner would have a connection through the rifle club movement, target shooters are one big family.

The rear sight is not likely to be original, most were removed, as they interfered with the sight picture through a range sight, this would have been replaced by the military, removed again by the club member, possibly replaced for service rifle competitions.

[4004757]

Thankyou for the interesting background. In your opinion, do these range rifles have any collector value? What pleases me the most with this gun is that the bore 'rifling' is sharp and as shiny as my new Sako rifle. Rarety with military guns these days. In regards to your comment on the rear sight. This one has had its base ground down? it is also fitted with a Parker Hale target sight (PH60). When I shot it for the first time last weekend (handloads), interestingly at 100 meters the target sight nearly aligns perfectly with the rear siht. Obviously it has been ground down for this purpose.

[muffett.2008]

Very collectable, specially with that great big H on the stock.

[dman69]

Can I ask which range you shoot at here in se QLD ? Would love to get a look at this in the flesh, so to speak !