Howdah Pistol - Double-Barrel Pin-Fire

[dttuner]

Here's an interesting one. I'm having a hard time helping the owner ID this little pistol. I call it a howdah pistol, but really unsure of it's origin.

Some very neat markings underneath the barrel.
The grip is definitely not original.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

Apparently these guns were carried on Elephant back to discourage tiger attack, among other things. Probably more of an anti bandit device. You'll see them in various calibers, rifled and unrifled... Here's the gist of it, if you believe what Wiki says. It's pretty close anywayzzz... Howdah pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[vintage hunter]

Those are Belgian proof markings. The crown/E/LG/star designates it was proved in conformity of German Proof Laws of 1891. The crown/R indicates rifled barrels. The intertwined EL above the 10.9 is the provisional proof of the barrels prior to permanent breeching. Not certain but the 10.9 may be a caliber designation. Looks a bit too large in the pics but 10.9 mm roughly equals .429 caliber and it's a center fire, not a pin fire.

[dttuner]

Those are Belgian proof markings. The crown/E/LG/star designates it was proved in conformity of German Proof Laws of 1891. The crown/R indicates rifled barrels. The intertwined EL above the 10.9 is the provisional proof of the barrels prior to permanent breeching. Not certain but the 10.9 may be a caliber designation. Looks a bit too large in the pics but 10.9 mm roughly equals .429 caliber and it's a center fire, not a pin fire.

As usual, blown away by the wealth of knowledge on this forum.

I was able to insert a .44 caliber casing into both chambers, but not able to close the action.
So, I'd say your evaluation is spot-on.

[browningautorifle]

They made them in lots of different calibers, even 303.

[vintage hunter]

Have confirmed 10.9 as being the bore diameter in millimeters. Being a BP fire arm the grooves would probably have been .008''-.010'' deep so I'm guessing actual bullet diameter would be around .450'' or so.

[browningautorifle]

It wouldn't be in 577/450 would it? The breech doesn't look big enough but hard to tell from here. Maybe .455 or .476? How long is the chamber? What shape?

[dttuner]

It wouldn't be in 577/450 would it? The breech doesn't look big enough but hard to tell from here. Maybe .455 or .476? How long is the chamber? What shape?

How long is the chamber?
- Can you explain what you'd like me to measure for you? Explain like I was a child :P
I only ask because with my limited firearms knowledge, this pistol doesn't seem to have a "chamber."
Just two spots where the rounds are loaded, similar to a couch gun.
I'm surely missing something.

What shape?
- I want to say round, but that seems too obvious.

I can take better/more pictures, and take measurements.
Just tell me exactly what you need, and I'll get it tonight.

Do we have any idea of the manufacturer or origin of this pistol?

[vintage hunter]

It wouldn't be in 577/450 would it?

Same thing crossed my mind too. What a handful that would be. Probably frighten the living s%@T out of your elephant too.

How long is the chamber?

What shape?

Just give us a inside measurement at the muzzle end and another at the chamber end for now. Should be able to figure out whether straight wall or bottle neck from that. If you have a good camera you might be able to get a descent shot of the chambers by shining a light in from the muzzle end seeing as how the barrels are so short. Something like this would give us a rough idea to toy around with until you can get more precise measurements.

[dttuner]

I see what you're saying about a chamber now. It does have a small chamber in each barrel, before the rifling starts.
There's some pitting in those chambers, but the rifling looks pretty clean.
Muzzle dimensions are smaller than breach. Also, cheap measuring caliper, fyi.

edit --
Chambers are 2.238 inches deep/long.

Hope this is what you guys were asking for...





Breach 1


Breach 2


Muzzle 1


Muzzle 2 ... not sure why they measure so different from each other.


Also noticed some more markings, and interesting features