A British Remington M1903 ...

[Nick Adams]

It's probably good advise, as a general matter, to "buy the gun, not the story," especially when the story is being spun at a gun show and there's the smell of money in the air. But once in a while the story is so entertwined with the gun that you can't so easily dichotomize the two. And this one's pretty straight forward anyway.

Travelling and family medical issues kept me away from the area gun shops earlier this year. When I had more time to get back to some unfinished reloading projects, I found I was short on powder, specifically Varget (yeah, primers I got). So, along about mid-June I wandered into the one shop that gets most of my business.

I always take a peek at their used rifle rack on the way back to the reloading area. On this visit I noticed the rack was packed full. I went on back and got some powder (they actually were very well-stock on Varget), and then came back to the counter.

It was something like a Tuesday afternoon, and there were only two or three other customers milling around. I know most of the staff, young guys mostly, so I asked the one stocking ammo behind the counter, "John," what was up with all the "new" used long guns.

"The economy," he says. "Lay-offs. Also, a couple of estate sales came in. And there's about a dozen old foreign military guns some lady brought in. Her husband stored them in his basement."

It wasn't clear if her batch was one of the "estate sales," but I went over and checked the rack anyway. Lots of consignments: many hunting-type bolt guns, some with scopes and slings, all over-priced. A few Savage rifles which varied in condition. Then, further down the rack, about 8 or 9 rough-looking mil-surp Mausers, some Argentine, IIRC. There were two .303 #4 Lee Enfields and several Mosin rifles. Next to them was one of those FN .308 precision bolt rigs that someone wanted $2000 for (no scope on that one).

Anyway, partly blocked by a couple of shotguns was this beat-up piece of crap pretending to be a bolt action mil-surp with ugly red paint smeared on the upper handguard.

I looked at the tag. First line: "M1903." Below it: "$500." On the back of the tag (hand-written): "No Warranty." I walked back over to John, still restocking ammo.

"I'm not getting this. What's up with the "No Warranty" on the 1903?"

"Low serial number Springfield. Some had metalurgy problems and we don't want the liability from people shooting full-power '06 loads. Probably would be fine as a cast shooter, though."

I went back over and looked at the thing again. The stock was worn and dirty, but no cracks. Outside of the barrel back from the muzzle was pitted up pretty bad. The barrel was real dirty but the crown was intact. Sights looked tight. I already had a Remington 03A3, so I thought a 1903 might make a nice sibling, ... sort of.

Then I looked at the receiver:

U.S.
Remington
Model 1903

Of course, all 1903s are Springfields, right?

"How long's it been here?"

"At least two months, maybe longer. It came in with the Enfields and the Mausers. Nothings moving."

Then he says: "Make an offer, if you interested."

So I did. (Specifics withheld at the risk of being called a thief ).

The boss wasn't available right then so I left my number with John.

Afternoon of the next day, the phone rang. I half expected full-auto profanity, or at least harsh language, but when I heard "it's yours," I couldn't get there fast enough with the cash.

Once home with it, I spent the next two days cleaning the barrel and then some portion of the following two carefully cleaning up the rest of it.

More pics follow in the next post, but don't expect much, as they're not that great.

FWIW, the info and links on this board proved very helpful in making meaningful headway on the Remington 1903-learning curve. In particular, I found Rick the Librarian's "primer" on his Brit-Rem M1903 (#3024801) to be an informative "check list" in going over mine. Very nice write-up, Rick.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Dan Shapiro]

Had a friend show up one day with a bunch of old rifles he wanted to give me. Most were junk, but he did have a WWI Mauser WITH the metal cover over the bolt, designed to keep dirt out of the receiver when reloading. IIRC it was marked Eurfurt 1916. I explained what he had, and that I wasn't interested in the other stuff. He left with all of it.
If he drops by again with stuff 'to give away', I'll just keep my mouth shut!

[Nick Adams]

Some additional pics (I added the sling):



Receiver.


Barrel.


This "302" is without the lightning cuts on the rear sight base, but it's housed in a finger grasping-groove stock.


All Remington "R"s are in the correct location and of the correct size, as far as I can tell. This includes the bolt handle, the right rear side of the trigger guard and the various parts of the rear sight, and elsewhere. Some "R"s are harder to see than others due to wearing, but they are there ...





Rear tang of receiver is not drilled through ...


Cartouches are also hard to see, faded or worn, but you can make them out.

Boxed "RLB" cartouche:


Mysterous "43" ahead of trigger guard, with some other barely discernable markings.


British proofing marks on receiver.


Also, a question for RTL or other 1903 experts: is the extractor on the Remington 1903s below the 305 serial # range supposed to have an "R" stamped on it (or some other marking) identifying it as a Rem as opposed to a RIA or Springfield extractor? If so, where is it supposed to be located? Thanks.

[LDVolunteer]

Hello Nick, I'm a home guard memorabilia collector. This is just a possibility. The majority of U.S. rifles sent to the U.K. and adapted for home guard use were P-17 U.S. Enfields in 30-06. The red paint was required so the home guard volunteers wouldn't try to load .303 into 30-06 chambered weapons. Most just brushed it on with little effeort for a neat job. Several thousand Springfields were also sent. The red band painted at the handguard is a fair clue. Is there anything else painted on the stock? Rarely, some home guard units would also paint .30 cal or 30-06 or cal 30-06 on the butt stock - usually in white paint.
*Just saw the pictures. I think the British crown marking is also a supporting clue. The 12/1941 date barrel throws me though. It's very late. Most of the U.S. goods showed up in 1941. Was it rebarreled in the U.K. later? I'm puzzled.
Just checked - BNP under a crown is Birmingham nitro proof.

[Rick the Librarian]

My friend, you hit the jackpot! Assuming you paid the $500 mentioned, you got it for at least 1/3 or less the going rate, probably less. Yous was one that was sent to the UK in 1942. The British proof marks identify it as one that was imported back to the US, probably in the 1960s. The markings look a little worn, but you have a (based on previous sales of these rifles) a $1500-2000 rifle!

If you want to find out more about these rifles, read the article that John Beard and I wrote in the July/August issue of "Man at Arms" Magazine.

I have #3,024,801 and the markings are very similar. However, it was obtained earlier, so the proof markings on te FRSB are missing.

[Nick Adams]

My friend, you hit the jackpot! Assuming you paid the $500 mentioned, you got it for at least 1/3 or less the going rate, probably less. Yous was one that was sent to the UK in 1942. The British proof marks identify it as one that was imported back to the US, probably in the 1960s. The markings look a little worn, but you have a (based on previous sales of these rifles) a $1500-2000 rifle!

If you want to find out more about these rifles, read the article that John Beard and I wrote in the July/August issue of "Man at Arms" Magazine.

I have #3,024,801 and the markings are very similar. However, it was obtained earlier, so the proof markings on te FRSB are missing.

Thanks, Rick. I paid significantly less than "$500," though.

Again, the primer on your "302"-serialed Remington 1903 was very helpful, and while doing the initial post above I kinda thought you'd enjoy seeing another "302" made not long after yours.

On the MMA magazine article, I do have the August 2009 issue w/ the Remington Red Star piece (Vol 31, #4). I've read that several times now and have gone over the pics repeatedly looking for little "comparables." Is that the piece you're referring to, or is there a separate one on the early Rem 1903s that I missed.

By the way, on p. 24 of the Red Star write-up, where the serial #s are given, I noted mine would fall, chronologically, early in the list - between Col Levin's 3026063 and 3027426 rifles. That 3026063 is probably a close cousin of mine.

Also, after reading that one, I became curious about the time-line for the changes to their 1903s that Rem began in late 1941, and whether there were any "firm" dates that corresponded w/ specific serial # ranges. I was trying to gauge how my rifle "fit" into what became a progressively modified rifle, eventually morphing into the 03A3. (In his famous Notebook (p.8), Hatcher identifies the 03A3's date as 5/21/42, but he omits specifying other dates even while mentioning the various changes made).

I came across Canfield's Illustrated Guide to the '03 Service Rifle, where he discusses the Rem M1903s (p. 117). He identifies 12/19/41 as the date of approval of eliminating the lightening cuts on the sides of the rear fixed sight base. It appears that was the first modification to the process of streamlining production of the receiver. He then identifies 2/19/42 as the date of approval for the rear guard screw hole to be completely drilled through. Mine doesn't have that mod, as shown in the pic above.

I had thought my serial # was consistent with a born-on date of mid-to-late Feb '42, but based on this statement perhaps it was made much earlier in the month and then put aside for later assembly with others en masse.

On the other hand, it's got a 12/41 barrel. So my receiver was made later than Rick's, but was then mated to a barrel produced in the plant a month before his (a 1/42 tube)? Interesting. Maybe one of the factory rats hadn't quite recovered from double-fisting it on New Year's Eve ...

Finally, Canfield then identifies the "next month," i.e., March 1942, as a general date for approval of a stock "redesign" that eliminated the finger-grasping grooves.

So, looking my "302" rifle over again, and assuming the accuracy of this general time-line, the only feature on it that distinguishes it from being a 100% "non-modified," early Rem 1903 is the absence of the lightening cuts on the sides of the RSB. Is that correct, John or Rick? (Or any other knowledgable individuals - feel free to weigh in. Citing sources too would help me. Thanks!)

[Nick Adams]

Hello Nick, I'm a home guard memorabilia collector. This is just a possibility. The majority of U.S. rifles sent to the U.K. and adapted for home guard use were P-17 U.S. Enfields in 30-06. The red paint was required so the home guard volunteers wouldn't try to load .303 into 30-06 chambered weapons. Most just brushed it on with little effeort for a neat job. Several thousand Springfields were also sent. The red band painted at the handguard is a fair clue. Is there anything else painted on the stock? Rarely, some home guard units would also paint .30 cal or 30-06 or cal 30-06 on the butt stock - usually in white paint. *Just saw the pictures. I think the British crown marking is also a supporting clue. The 12/1941 date barrel throws me though. It's very late. Most of the U.S. goods showed up in 1941. Was it rebarreled in the U.K. later? I'm puzzled. Just checked - BNP under a crown is Birmingham nitro proof.

LDVolunteer: No, the barrel is an original Rem barrel ("R.A."), w/ Rem proof dated 12/41.



Here's a better pic of the paint on the left side of the handguard (opposite the bolt). It's very worn (not sanded) but you can still discern elements of black paint that once said either: "300" or "3006" - couldn't tell which it was on this one. The pics of still-intact caliber designations I've seen show it in black paint.

[John Beard]

The "R" on early Remington extractors is located on the bottom rear corner.

Hope this helps. And thanks for sharing! You have a splendid rifle!

J.B.

[Lancebear]

Nick,

You are certainly the lucky dog of the week. Great rifle and thanks for sharing it with us. Great story.

Have one from last week. Was checking out the site of a favorite dealer during a break at work and figured I saw an ORIGINAL late S.A. 1918 M1903 for a song. Rare bird indeed. Only two things not completely original were a, guess uncommon NS marked bolt with serifs and the windage knob on the rear sight. Bought it. Got home and checked my mail and had one from the dealer that politely stated that someone else got it two minutes before me.

Mailed John Beard about the rifle to see if it was original and steered him to the site. Coupla' days later J.B. sent his condolences. He figured the rifle was indeed original, minus the bolt and sight screw. As Chuck would say, Dayum.

Not cryin' in my beer, have been very lucky as you in collecting '03's.

Wonder if your rifle is a "Red Star" that John and Rick wrote about recently. Think the serial numbers are in the article. Get a copy of the last "Man At Arms" and learn a whole lot about your rifle.

Great find...let us know how it shoots!

Regards,

Lancebear

[John Beard]

Nick,

Wonder if your rifle is a "Red Star" that John and Rick wrote about recently. Think the serial numbers are in the article. Get a copy of the last "Man At Arms" and learn a whole lot about your rifle.

Great find...let us know how it shoots!

Regards,

Lancebear

Nick's rifle would not be a "Red Star" Remington. "Red Star" Remingtons do not have British proof marks.

J.B.