My Second post, first here; Looking for an M 19O3 Springfield

[A3 Pseudo Scout]

The post above—the gun shot at Harrisburg PA, and it is this weekend— by Aragorn243 is exactly the kind of information that is most useful to me at this stage of my "looking" and "drooling"!
I sent him a long PM.
Dave

[techkya]

The Harrisburg G/S is not what it used to be...I doubt there will be more than 500 tables....The best show you can go to is the Chantily show....If you are not knowledgeable about the 03, you will get burned....I would give the Harrisburg show a miss, and go to the one at the Oaks off of Rt 422 outside of Valley Forge...That show is next weekend and has 1000 + tables....Bill Riccia will be there and he may be give you a heads up on a 03 that he noticed at a vendors table...The prices will start at 750 for a HN shooter....I would invest in some pin gauges...A .301 and a .302...No use buying an 03 with a shot out barrel....If any barrel gauges over a .302 I walk away cause at that point the barrel is half shot out....At a LGS in Lebanon,Pa. Shyda's, there is a Remington 3.3 with a 12/42 barrel, scant stock, A3 bolt...It is not beat up for seven even...It is not correct by any means, but it could be a good starter rifle..I did not gauge the barrel....Have fun....regards

[A3 Pseudo Scout]

I have to miss the Harrisburg show this weekend anyway; family responsibility, etc, you know the drill!
I thank techkya for the above "heads-up"!
Is this the gunstore?
Shydas Gun ShopAnd by the Chantilly show?

And the Chantilly show?
The Nation's Gun Show > Home

That is right before new years day; I can make that one easily.
But I need to find a "Springfield Buddy" who will hold my hand and keep me out of trouble!

Dave
PS, and I would get taken!

[Neal Myers]

Sadly, you live in a state that has deliberately put many gunsmiths & gun stores out of business for political purposes. And, Montgomery Co is the most repressive county in the state. The only gun store in the area that might have what you are looking for is Atlantic Guns in Rockville, & they have a good reputation.

If you don't have assembly/disassembly instructions, I can send you a photocopy of the American Rifleman instructions from my Dec 2001 issue.

Issak Walton is probably your only nearby range. Gilbert indoor range in Rockville can't handle .30-06, &, besides, you must buy their ammo. The Associated Gun Club has a nice outdoor range, but Marriottsville is a long drive from you.

I don't care for the Chantilly shows: mostly overpriced modern guns & beef jerky. Occasionally you will see a 1911A1 or a shot out M1 rifle. You might want to buy a .30 cal muzzle wear gauge to quickly check out the bore of any gun you are considering. Probably the best show is the Maryland Arms Collectors show in Timonium, held every March.

Within the last few years I have seen some good buys on Gunbroker, but you have to know what you are looking at.

[techkya]

Yes , that is the correct web site for Shyda's...Also for Chantilly...I agree the Maryland Arms collector show is very good....I got burned on G/B once it will never ever buy online again...You might even find an 03 at the Oaks G/S this weekend...I would say the prices for firearms are less in Pa....Have Fun...regards

[1903Collector]

Dave, first I need to advise that among your excellent list of reference books you are missing 'The Collectable '03' by J.C. Harrison! This is a MAJOR asset for your hobby!!!!

After all your replies you may not need my advice. In any case, there are still quite many '03s out there. Some for thousands and some for a decent price. The most interesting and rewarding way to acquire an '03 is to find what is called a 'Sporter' and restore it to original configuration. You will serve the '03 community by returning a lost rifle to proper USGI configuration. It might not be 'original’ and the value not as high as one verified as in original configuration straight out of an armory, but it will be a true USGI '03 for all intents and purposes.

A Sporter, as you may know, is an '03 or A3 that was converted to a sporting rifle years ago when the Springfield’s could be bought for a song and people would modify the stock change or replace it with a something akin to a Monte Carlo style stock to resemble a commercial rifle. Sadly, sometimes the rifle barrel, bolt and other parts were polished and blued, or even drilled or modified, but almost always a number of original parts are removed or replaced; even the front sight sleeve. There are many, however, which are only lacking the proper stock and a few parts.

So, find a decent sporter (I’ve seen them between <$300USD to around $600, but now and then one might find one very cheap indeed. Make sure you have the correct muzzle and throat gages in order to assure the barrel is in good shape. Then, one of the real fun activities in this hobby, you use your reference books to determine the version you have and which parts on it are correct and which parts need to be sourced. Then decide if the finish condition of each part is adequate or needs re-finishing. After that, it is a matter of searching, sourcing and acquiring the parts needed as well as cleaning and possibly re-finishing each part per spec. Again, such a rifle will never be a collector's piece or value, but as one you restored yourself, it will be priceless (you can do the same with a stripped receiver and maybe even spend less cash!)

If you have limited access to gun shows (we have one almost every week in or around Dallas year around, with 2 different shows at once some weekends) then look to the auction sites: gunbroker.com; gunauction.com; gunsamerica.com; gunsinternatinal.com, (all have the high-end collector '03, Garand, Carbines and M14 rifles as well as the entry level stuff, but though some have had poor experiences with all these sites, in my opinion gunbroker.com is the best for single parts and sub-assemblies of all kinds for the '03 as well as 'sporters' and even stripped receivers and replacement barrels as well as complete rifles of all grades at decent prices.) The best site for higher level listings is rockislandauction.com. In Texas we have texasguntrader.com; I don’t know if you have to love in TX or not to use it!?! I find these auction sites a bit better than gun shows, though I have found occasional great deals there now and then; the problem is it is 'hit-or-miss,' but popular opinion that all the good deals are gone after the first day morning is non-sense. You can’t always find the occasional part you want, and rare and hard to find parts are just that (and you usually pay for it if you do!), but I KNOW you can out together a decent '03 that is properly configured as a 're-arsenaled' rifle from most any year.

For metal & stock re-finishing, careful internet and gun forum sites searches will yield a few reliable sources near you and even one or two who restore the stamped cartouches on your stock. He does stock restoration & military gunstock restoration cartouche, (see Untitled Document).

FYI, at the beginning of next year there will be a one-stop-shop for metal and wood finishing services. As principle at MNX Armory, I will be offering both Zinc and Manganese Parkerizing services after the 1st of the year. I will also be offering limited stock restoration, but I will specialize in Springfield 1903 rifles (Findley does mostly M1 Garands as far as I can tell; a good guy, he replied to my emails and offered some advice and clarification to the step by step DIY instructions he posted on his site! I will be restoring cartouches as well, but I will never stamp finished old stocks that had none to make it look like it did originally (that is called counterfeiting and is a real problem in our community), but I will restore existing cartouches and even stamp new and New Old Stock (NOS) to a limited extend but it will also be stamped as a replica with my personal stamp to provide identification as a replica and not an authentic antique. More importantly, I use the original U.S.G.I armory stain and finish media and process (timed dip stain with authentic Logwood Dye stain and timed dip finish in Boiled linseed oil (BLO)). My Zinc Phosphate Parkerizing service will include an authentic (but proprietary) process for accelerating the ultimate color shift of the metal finish from the 'new from the armory' grey, to the aged grey-green that is so highly valued by collectors. It will still take months/years (actual time will vary due to multiple variable factors), but far shorter time duration of the original and certainly "within your life-time!" ;-)

Finally, I have a local resource who is in the process of restoring about 30 Springfield 1903 rifles. A few will be collector grade and a few entirely rebuilt from parts, but all are shooters with full certificates of the type and origin of each part, and full documentation of measurements of all gauged features (It is not at the level of a CMP certification, but the certificate has a few things more than the CMP as well.) These rifles will start to become available for sale after the beginning of the year.

I hope my reply helps you in some ways. I will appreciate any and all feedback and ALWAYS corrections by anyone if I got any at all wrong. Good luck and have fun!

BR 1903Collector (David, MNX Armory (website not up yet))

[A3 Pseudo Scout]

Thanks for replays. There is a lot to think about and digest. I appreciate all help.
Dave

[JGaynor]

The Forks of the Delaware group has a show in Allentown, PA about four times a year. Bill Ricca is usually in attendance.

As far as getting some more information on gunsmithing as a hobby you might want to check your local book dealers for a couple of magazines. One is the "Home Shop Machinist" and the other is "the Machinist's Workshop". One of them has at least one gunsmithing article per issue.

There is also an internet forum with a gunsmithing section where you could ask specific questions should the need arise.
The Home Shop Machinist Machinist's Workshop Magazine's BBS

In any case you may be able to satisfy your basic curiosity with minimal investment of money and energy.

The one tool should definitely invest in is a good set of hollow ground srcrewdrivers.
Brownells has several sets. I personally have used the Grace Metal drivers (set of 8) for the last 40 years or so (light hobbyist use). The handles a wood and don't slip and the blades have square shanks - good for attaching a crescent wrench if more torque is needed.

[tomwatts]

A3 Pseudo Scout & 1903Collector, I can totally relate to your collector/restore focus. We have many types of 03 collectors and 03 enthusiasts here at MilSurps and every one of us have been welcomed here, regardless of our focus.

I have few collectibles grade O3’s, but they just cost me money, my restoration guns are my favorite works of creative art and hell I can and do shoot them all!

I have invested in barrel vises and the barrel reamers, mills and lathes etc. etc. I totally get your tool interest.

I will never have the skill, tools or knowledge to build such a fine old gun, but I can bring them back to life. I have about 20 in various stages of restoration, and about 12 completed in my restoration collection. Not planning on selling any; I will just let my heirs enjoy them or pass them on to some other 03 enthusiast.

Thanks for sharing.
Tom

[A3 Pseudo Scout]

[1] Sadly, you live in a state that has deliberately put many gunsmiths & gun stores out of business for political purposes.

[2] And, Montgomery Co is the most repressive county in the state.

[3] The only gun store in the area that might have what you are looking for is Atlantic Guns in Rockville, & they have a good reputation.

[4] Within the last few years I have seen some good buys on Gunbroker, but you have to know what you are looking at.

In regards to the quotes above,

1. and 2., I know very well, having lived here the first time in 1957.

3. I have dealt with Atlantic Guns for many years.

4. I have not been looking for a Springfield very long, so I don't know the history of Gunbroker's offers or sales.

I am going to the gun show at the Dulles Expo at the very end of this year, DEC 28–30. I might talk someone into holding my hand; show me what to look at and why, etc. It would be a very good classroom for me if I can find an instructor. Perhaps someone would offer his expertise.
Dave