Another 1903/A3 cartouche question

[browningautorifle]

Glad I gave you guys someone to have a laugh on. I'm happy that all your purchases have
been perfect and that you've never had a problem with anything you bought.
I just feel so good after spending time here

Relax, these guys are among the best on line. You didn't post pics in the beginning, and sound like you think they're wrong so...

[Johnny Peppers]

Would you have been better off if everyone had told you how nice and authentic it was. As was mentioned, altering the serial number is a felony. I would return the rifle to the seller.

From the Federal Firearms Act of 1938.

Section 902i forbids the shipping, transporting, or knowingly receiving, in interstate or foreign commerce, of any firearm from which the manufacturer's serial number has been removed, obliterated or altered, "and the possession of any such firearm shall be presumptive evidence that such firearm was transported, shipped, or received, as the case may be, by the possessor in violation of this Act."[30] It is clear that the presumption applies only to the instant subdivision for only under this section is there any ban against such firearm.

[Salt Flat]

Oldmartins, We have all been burned at least once as gun collectors and that is why we are interested and closely looking at this piece. Please do not feel offended. I personally applaud you for giving us a chance to examine this piece. Any negative remarks are not aimed at you but rather at whoever has faked this piece. You have come to the right place to present these questions and please continue to participate. THANKS! Salt Flat

[Chuckindenver]

Attachment 39343Attachment 39344heres a pic of a 1903A3 thats close to the serial of the one you pictured, compare the size, index, and font. also notice the guide line for the handguard ring is missing on yours.

[highpower3006]

Look, no one is laughing at you. If what you have is a National Ordnance receiver it is in your best interest to know about it. All the legalities of altered/faked serial numbers aside, they are unsafe to shoot and there are pictures of them out there that show just how bad they can fail. If you have the recourse to return it to the person you bought it from, do it. Get your money back and learn from the experience and use the knowledge you have gained to make a more informed purchase next time.

It is unfortunate that there are unscrupulous people out there that prey on the uninformed, and are willing to perpetuate this kind of fraud. There is also a lot on ignorance out there (defined as a lack of knowledge) and many times bogus guns will be passed on from unsuspecting owner to unsuspecting owner. Look at this as a learning experience and get your money back and move on.

We have all made mistakes in the past and you are lucky that there are sites like this that will give you the information that has been gained by others. Look at the pictures that have been posted of real markings on real military receivers and instead of getting mad and thinking that you are being made fun of, learn from it and then you will know better next time.

[Johnny Peppers]

The law is on your side now. You can certainly return the rifle, as it is illegal to sell or possess due to the altered serial number. If the seller resists, tell him you are turning it over to the BATF.

[Chuckindenver]

i belive he bailed, i have learned that most people just want a chearing section, and not the truth.
its all good.

[Rick the Librarian]

Glad I gave you guys someone to have a laugh on. I'm happy that all your purchases have
been perfect and that you've never had a problem with anything you bought.
I just feel so good after spending time here. Sensitive and caring, you guys are the best!

If you took that as making fun, it certainly wasn't meant that way. I meant that the case had been proven. Yes, almost everyone who posts here has been burned, sometimes more than once. We've been there - we know how you feel. (or should feel).

[oldmartins]

Of course I feel like an idiot. No one likes to have their mistakes put up there for all to see. It's not a pleasant experience. I did not pay much for this rifle, I knew there was a chance it was not in great shape, but of course there was no thought of a serial number change. I have an FFL license to protect, I don't think this if funny nor am I against hearing opinions that are given in a kind and honest manner.

I moderate several forums and watch for this kind of post all the time, especially with a "newby" as they are not always ready for the kind of things that often happen of forums. It's a safe place to comment in ways that are not always taken as they are meant. I know non of you guys. I collect Garands, have never had a problem with phoney serial numbers, just know what to look for after many years. Just the comments like "3 dollar bill" are easy to take somewhat personally, right or wrong. I recognize the depth of experience here and respect it. I would not have posted here if I did not feel that way.

I just sensed an immediate feeling that I was trying to pass off something that was not what it was supposed to be. I've seen fakes, numbers out of line, not even in line with the stamped numbers above, that kind of thing. I know that's sad but common. What I might suggest is a sticky that details the kinds of things to look for and photos of fakes. I just felt mine was odd in that the same font used for the Remington A3 03, which looks original to me, was used in the serial number so it seemed possible that somewhere along the line it was re-stamped. Arsenals do some odd things from time to time. I'm not trying to say this is not fake, it's just difficult, it seems to me, to call that, with no question or regard, a fake so quickly. The internet requires a thick skin, mine just go real thick quick.

I'm posting some photos with the rifle back together, I wanted to take everything apart for a closer look. I found the R stamps in the right places, lots of pitting, you will see it below, and the magazine box is really quite pitted. Even the new barrel, which as I said checks out as nearly new, shows some light external pitting. I assume the rifle was stored in a higher humidity as the barrel is late war, almost post-war.

If you know someone well on the forum, you can take some liberties with what you say as they know you and realize where you are coming from. Nobody knows me, you don't have any clue about me and I realize that, but I always jump in on posts I moderate that seem to be heading in a direction where a newbie might take things the wrong way and try to create a long-time member out of someone who might be offended and just walk. I think the goal of all forums is to create a community of trust and respect, it's easy to do, easier to do the opposite. Getting off my soapbox now.

Lousy photos but maybe they will offer some more information.

[Chuckindenver]

based on the new photos, i can see that it is a Genuine military A3, what i would say by the pics, is that it had heavy water or fire damage at some point, and likely thats when someone engraved the markings, including the serial number. as you can see compaired to the pictures i posted, the indexing and number font is not right.
with the heavy amount of rust damage, the receiver ring should have damage as well, and likely did before it was modified.
none of my post were or are an attack on you, only and observation of the rifle.
legality asside, i would be worried about safety on the rifle, and would recomend a rockwell hardness test. rust from flood or fire damage, can effect the hardness of the steel.
one for sure fix that iv done on other rifles modified in the same way, is to buy another receiver, and have all the parts installed on that , then destroy the moified receiver, or make it go away.
you can get a recovered drill rifle receiver on GB or other auction site for less then 200.00 if you shop.