+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 106

Thread: M1 Carbine in an intermediate caliber

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last On
    10-26-2024 @ 06:30 AM
    Location
    The wild west of England
    Posts
    3,422
    Real Name
    Mr Clark
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    11:54 PM

    M1 Carbine in an intermediate caliber

    Hi all,

    I was just wondering if having encountered and studied examples of the MP44, was there any attempt to produce an intermediate caliber M1icon Carbine prototype?

    It strikes me that the carbine is most of the way to being an 'assault rifle' anyway, some beefing up of the receiver and altering dimensions perhaps and introduce a .30 intermediate cartridge based on the Germanicon 7.96 Kurz design.

    It seems to me like an obvious direction to explore, so did they?
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    Contributing Member eb in oregon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Last On
    Today @ 10:21 AM
    Location
    Northern Oregon
    Posts
    233
    Real Name
    Eric
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    03:54 PM
    "It seems to me like an obvious direction to explore, so did they?"

    No. They developed the M14icon.
    "You are what you do when it counts."

  4. Thank You to eb in oregon For This Useful Post:


  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 02:24 PM
    Location
    out there
    Posts
    1,838
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    04:54 PM
    In effect, the M1icon Carbine IS an intermediate cartridge...

    110gr bullet at 2000fps...

  7. The Following 4 Members Say Thank You to Lee Enfield For This Useful Post:


  8. #4
    Legacy Member floydthecat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Last On
    Today @ 08:09 AM
    Location
    Southeastern US
    Posts
    167
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    04:54 PM
    I have modified a Saginaw Gear to 9 x 19 using factory loads. Not an intermediate cartridge, but proof that it can be done, if you get the pressures right.

    Several other pistol calibers would work just as well, but you won?t gain any performance that delivers much improvement over the 7.62 x 33, just shoot cheaper.
    Last edited by floydthecat; 12-19-2021 at 08:30 AM.

  9. Thank You to floydthecat For This Useful Post:


  10. #5
    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last On
    10-26-2024 @ 06:30 AM
    Location
    The wild west of England
    Posts
    3,422
    Real Name
    Mr Clark
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    11:54 PM
    Thread Starter
    Just to refine my question, time period in question is 44 to 48 ....

    I am of course assuming US top brass was impressed with the MP44, perhaps it wasn't?

    The evidence of no attempt to produce something like it, would assume they weren't??

    It just occurred to me last night, that the M1icon carbine is an excellent starting point for (and only a small developmental push from) turning the design into a firearm 'along the same lines' of the MP44, not in manufacturing, materials etc, but in practical effect.

    A .30 Kurtz would be an interesting round!

    Point taken on the .30 Carbine round though, a personal favourite calibre....

    I just thought it was an interesting discussion...

  11. #6
    Contributing Member Tom in N.J.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    Today @ 01:11 PM
    Location
    Nothern New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    607
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    06:54 PM
    The M1 Carbine is an assault weapon in New Jersey and has been banned since 1991. It is, however one of the two types of 'assault weapons' that could have been registered and retained. (The other is the M14s / M1Aicon.)
    Last edited by Tom in N.J.; 12-19-2021 at 05:54 PM.

  12. Thank You to Tom in N.J. For This Useful Post:


  13. #7
    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last On
    10-26-2024 @ 06:30 AM
    Location
    The wild west of England
    Posts
    3,422
    Real Name
    Mr Clark
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    11:54 PM
    Thread Starter
    Interesting Tom...

    I suppose if the USAicon had made a move to produce a firearm in the late war to 1950 time period, that sat between the Carbine and the Garand, they would have produced something that looked rather like a Ruger Mini14...

  14. Thank You to mrclark303 For This Useful Post:


  15. #8
    Contributing Member eb in oregon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Last On
    Today @ 10:21 AM
    Location
    Northern Oregon
    Posts
    233
    Real Name
    Eric
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    03:54 PM
    The M2 Carbine re-barreled to 5.7MMJ is and would have been a more modern "assault rifle." No other changes to the rifle were required outside of some feed ramp modifications. However when Melvin Johnson developed the 5.7MMJ (.22 Spitfire) the military was still determined to stay with .30 caliber cartridges. Thus 7.62 NATO was developed. However it wasn't all that much later that the 5.56 NATO was considered and adopted. The military missed a golden opportunity to utilize the M2 Carbine as a more modern firearm that would have been an ideal weapon in the jungles of Vietnam.
    "You are what you do when it counts."

  16. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to eb in oregon For This Useful Post:


  17. #9
    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last On
    10-26-2024 @ 06:30 AM
    Location
    The wild west of England
    Posts
    3,422
    Real Name
    Mr Clark
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    11:54 PM
    Thread Starter
    Just looked up .22 Spitfire, looks like a very interesting cartridge...

    Certainly an M2 chambered in .22 Spitfire, with a 30 round magazine and perhaps in a Para stock would have been a very useful weapon in the close confines of jungle warfare.

    I believe the Green Beret advisers used M2 Carbines in Para Stocks, being the lucky owner of an M1A1icon, I can certainly attest to the compact nature and pointability of the design.

  18. #10
    Legacy Member DaveHH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    04-22-2024 @ 04:12 PM
    Location
    Northern Calif
    Posts
    1,348
    Real Name
    David Haynes
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    05:54 PM
    Melvin's invention was ill timed, you could get surplus carbine ammunition for about 3-5 cents a round at the time, so what's the point?

    I personally think that the M1 carbine was taken a step too far with the M2. It is a fragile design compared to say M16 or AK and I doubt that it could have held up well to prolonged use of a 50,000+ CUP cartridge. They were breaking with cases that were a bit too long. In actual field use the M14icon and M16 were miles ahead in reliability and especially accuracy. The carbine did what it was supposed to do and did it well. The fact that after 6.5M were made there is still a huge demand for them and they are still shooting says a lot about their history.

  19. Thank You to DaveHH For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-09-2017, 04:35 PM
  2. Intermediate mauser sniper?
    By chainsaw in forum Mauser Rifles
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-21-2012, 11:57 AM
  3. sub caliber or chamber inserts or auxilary caliber
    By RCS in forum The Watering Hole OT (Off Topic) Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-08-2011, 09:42 PM
  4. Intermediate Enfield Brens
    By Peter Laidler in forum The Bren LMG (Light Machine Gun)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-31-2009, 12:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts