Did Holland & Holland use recycled scopes?

[Roger Payne]

Peter,
I know it's speculation, but if you feel the 'recycled' explanation could not happen, how about the possibility that the earlier scopes may have been supplied &/or fitted at a time of temporary glitch in the supply of Mk2 or Mk3 scopes?

ATB

[muffett.2008]

Or if we had one damaged rifle with good scope and one good rifle with damaged scope?

[bigduke6]

Or if we had one damaged rifle with good scope and one good rifle with damaged scope?

I would guess this was the case, Both 1944 rifles, is it not a saying anything is possible during a War? or the old saying mend and make do.
I just think at this time everyone was stretched to the limit am sure 1944 was the peak time of everything back then (or the build up to D Day for them in the know) other thing I was thinking maybe training rifles ?

[jmoore]

...other thing I was thinking maybe training rifles ?

You are setting your aspirations too high! Like pretty much any No.4 Mk.(T) in close to "as delivered" condition, these rifles likely spent almost all of their military careers in the stores room. Toward the back. As back-ups to the stuff that went "out" on a regular basis. The rifles with "history" have (almost) all been rebuilt, possibly multiple times. And the ex-front line rifles probably mostly went to India and such after the war...Easy way to spare the expense of dealing with "tired" and early gear.

[Roger Payne]

That's an interesting point jm. I've often had people ask me for 4T's & they want a 44 or 45 rifle, 'not an early one'. Yet, in fact, from the batch that we bought, it was almost invariably the early rifles; the 41 BSA's, Savage's & Maltby's that were the tightest, with the least worn bores. This may sound odd, but I suspect it is explicable on the basis that the late rifles are the examples that would have seen most use in the post-war era as they would be the weapons fitted with Mk3 scopes. The early kit may have seen some action during the war but is then most likely to have been disposed of (by whatever means) after 1945. (No doubt some would have gone to India & seen further heavy use, but not all). Hence, the service lives of most of the early conversions were probably a lot shorter than the later rifles. I have several 1941 & 42 rifles with tight-as-a-drum headspacing & razor sharp lands........

[jmoore]

The early kit may have seen some action during the war but is then most likely to have been disposed of (by whatever means) after 1945.

Makes perfect sense to me! Not too many opportunities to view early rifles here, with the exception of Savages. Those seem to pop up regularly.

[Surpmil]

Interesting thread. Pity H&H didn't keep a log book of what they worked on and when.