Informational post on Gibbs 1903 a4

[Calif-Steve]

When I was in High School in Honolulu we had real working Garands. As a Senior cadet we drove up to Schofield Barracks and shot the Train Fire I Course. What a day that was! We brought our Garands back to school and spent Saturday afternoon, Monday morning and Tuesday cleaning them again and again. No such thing as a Drill Rifle around there. I could be wrong, but I think all of those rifles went off to Viet Nam.

[RBruce]

Gone are the days when in college, my roommate and I each had our hunting rifles in our room. We'd head out to the woods on Saturday morings to take pot shots at squirrels. The cafeteria cook loved it when we'd bring back a few (he'd take them home to cook).

[Chuckindenver]

i shot on the NRA JR trap team, had a semi auto shotgun behind the seat of my pickup 3 days a week.
now, a kid would make the news, and be kicked out of school for life..

[jdmcomp]

Finally got around to shooting the gun, and it shot two inch groups at 100 yds with out problems (as for me, that is another issue, but after all I am past 60 with old eyeglasses). The ammo is some of my old reloads for DCM match shooting using 147 gr FMJ bullets. Better ammo might improve the groups some.

The scope is a disaster, but no more so then the originals were I think. Lots of parallax, eye relief and focus issues. Cross hairs alone must have been 3 MOA. Comparing it to a current production scope is unfair so I won't got there as a complaint, just a comment. The rifle functions well and I am not disappointed. However, handling of rifle points to its shortcomings (as found in the originals and not Gibbs doing) with the scope interfering with the bolt and with loading the rifle. You can understand that this is a wartime short development issue item. I also suspect that I need to fiddle with the scope location in the mounts to help with the eye relief and parallax. Shooting was done with elbows on the concrete bench with rifle held fully in hands. Range rules I cannot change.

For comparison, I also took a 1903A3 to the range and was able to shoot a group almost as good with the peep sight of the A3. Between the two, the scope added little to the ability to hit the target. Today is sunny and mid 70s so could not be better weather. I need to see if low light conditions are improved by the scope. Hope this helps others in making the purchase decision.

[JGaynor]

jdmcomp:I think he was actually thanking you for a straight up review. Not a snide comment. One thing does bother me about the magazine review. They had a real 03-A4 AND a replica rifle in the article. I could not figure out which the article was talking about. More then just a little confusing. Calling a drill rifle a "dewatted training rifle" tells me what? I thought dewats were machine guns. I would like to see some photos of a customer's rifle. Would someone post some photos? Thanks guys.

Steve you are right. The term "DEWAT" stood for deactivated war trophy. these were mainly fully automatic weapons that had been deactivated by having a steel plug welded into the chamber. Some of the more concientious sellers also welded the barrel to the receiver.

"DEWATS" were widely sold over the counter or thru mailorder ads from outfits like Service Armament Co.(Forgett again!), Interarmco, Hy Hunter and many others. Some of the deactivation jobs were not very good. A writer for the Saturday Evening Post (IIRC) picked up a Thompson from one source and a new barrel from Numrich put the two together and wrote a story about it for the magazine.

At any rate the 1968 gun law killed the DEWAT program once and for all. Since then the term "DEWAT" has had little meaning except as it refers to the pieces registgerd under the 68 amnesty.

Since that time the govt DEMILLs surplus weapons by cutting them in pieces, crushing them or burning holes them to the point where it is real diffficult (but not necessarily impossible) to put them back together.

Regards,

Jim

[JGaynor]

Finally got around to shooting the gun, and it shot two inch groups at 100 yds with out problems (as for me, that is another issue, but after all I am past 60 with old eyeglasses). The ammo is some of my old reloads for DCM match shooting using 147 gr FMJ bullets. Better ammo might improve the groups some.

The scope is a disaster, but no more so then the originals were I think. Lots of parallax, eye relief and focus issues. Cross hairs alone must have been 3 MOA. Comparing it to a current production scope is unfair so I won't got there as a complaint, just a comment. The rifle functions well and I am not disappointed. However, handling of rifle points to its shortcomings (as found in the originals and not Gibbs doing) with the scope interfering with the bolt and with loading the rifle. You can understand that this is a wartime short development issue item. I also suspect that I need to fiddle with the scope location in the mounts to help with the eye relief and parallax. Shooting was done with elbows on the concrete bench with rifle held fully in hands. Range rules I cannot change.

For comparison, I also took a 1903A3 to the range and was able to shoot a group almost as good with the peep sight of the A3. Between the two, the scope added little to the ability to hit the target. Today is sunny and mid 70s so could not be better weather. I need to see if low light conditions are improved by the scope. Hope this helps others in making the purchase decision.

Good, rational review - thanks JDM.. Just out of curoiosity ..on the replica scope is the elevation knob on top and the windage knob on the left (as viewed from the rear). i have been a little unclear as to whether the functgion of these knobs was reveresed or just the markings?

I have no inside information on Gibbs cost or pricing structure but when I worked for a gun dealer in the late 60's early 70s typically our cost was about 65% of selling price. We were jobbers on a few items so the those costs were more like 50% of MSRP.

Assuming Gibbs is working with similar margins and that both they and theire respective outlets (AIM etc) are making a profit they are getting quite a bit of work done for not a whole lot of money. Unless somone had a basement full of parts aquired years ago @ little cost I find it hard to believe some one could craft their own A4 clone for Gibbs price. Sos as the man says - 'you pays your money and you make your choice!"

Rergards,

Jim

[jdmcomp]

El in on top and windage on the left side, and I have no idea which is the correct direction for the knob to turn. I really did not pay attention to the markings. Setting a scope means looking at the bullet holes through the scope and moving the cross hairs from the bull to the bullet holes. Sorry.

Gibbs claims they had a basement full of A4 bolts from a parts purchase much earlier and uses reclaimed drill rifle actions with new made barrels to seal the deal. I agree that the margins look slim. I even bought mine at a discount from the AIM price.

In many ways it is not a thing of beauty but for the price a reasonable deal. Somewhat of a crap shoot as to what you get in the way of parts such as wood and small parts. I noticed the guns provided to reviewers seem to have original stocks with markings intact. Mine has no markings and is a new stock. This would also be true of many 1903A3s on the market today. The days of $100 Springfields is a distant memory now.

[JGaynor]

El in on top and windage on the left side, and I have no idea which is the correct direction for the knob to turn. I really did not pay attention to the markings. Setting a scope means looking at the bullet holes through the scope and moving the cross hairs from the bull to the bullet holes. Sorry.

Gibbs claims they had a basement full of A4 bolts from a parts purchase much earlier and uses reclaimed drill rifle actions with new made barrels to seal the deal. I agree that the margins look slim. I even bought mine at a discount from the AIM price.

In many ways it is not a thing of beauty but for the price a reasonable deal. Somewhat of a crap shoot as to what you get in the way of parts such as wood and small parts. I noticed the guns provided to reviewers seem to have original stocks with markings intact. Mine has no markings and is a new stock. This would also be true of many 1903A3s on the market today. The days of $100 Springfields is a distant memory now.

JDM...i suspect they had a basement full of "altered" bolts. In the photographs i have seen of the replicas the bolts just don't look like the real deal. Besides considering the price point for the completed rifle it would not make good buisness sence to use a real A4 bolt - they are too valuable as parts.

Regards,

Jim

[byronroland]

Just a quick question about the scope. Is the Numrich scope the same? Theirs is over $400.00 and I think they claim US made? I need to ck this?

But are they the same scope? If so, Numrich is ripping people off.

There is a complete rifle on Gunbrokers right now. I have looked at Gibbs site.

[JGaynor]

Just a quick question about the scope. Is the Numrich scope the same? Theirs is over $400.00 and I think they claim US made? I need to ck this?

But are they the same scope? If so, Numrich is ripping people off.

There is a complete rifle on Gunbrokers right now. I have looked at Gibbs site.

I don't think so. Gibbs is offering a reproduction of the Weaver 330C/M73B1.

I just searched the Gunparts Corp. site and only came up with a reproduction M84 which is a different scope. It was also used on the A4 beginning in the 1950's but did not exist when the original A4's rolled off the line At Remington.

Considering the price point I would be surprised if the M84 reproduction is made in the US. The website didn't say (or I missed it!)

Regards,

Jim