I appreciate praise/criticism from you in any form. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the work done by the FM personnel was a make work project to the extent that they had plenty of trained skilled people twiddling their thumbs and they were broke and hungry. It makes sense that if you are going to farm out this work, might as well have honest skilled people doing it. I would imagine that after 4 years of working for the Germans they were very willing and proud to be working for the Yanks. Since Monty had gone off to Market Garden and ignored the Scheldt river access to Antwerp, the Army was denied use of one of the finest ports in the area which they desperately needed and the Belgians were denied all of the goodies that go with having a major port, food, gasoline, and all the stuff the Army uses. The US owed Belgium a favor. Maybe that huge contract was the favor? That one great photo of the FN folks working away suggests "Make work" lots of people doing something others standing there with their arms crossed. One thing is unmistakable, they were all ****ed off which would definitely be the case after working for the Boche. In any event, the task was an important one and with the Japanese to deal with, these weapons were essential.
Getting back to the OP.
I kinda look at it this way, from what I have read and looked up on the internet on carbines over the years, put them in this order:
#1. This would be a WW-2 configured carbine that has never been touched or missed with since WW-2, which there are prob. about 10 total, and I doubt that.
#2. One that has been corrected, with org. WW-2 parts back to it's org. configuration. and that's about 99% of so-called org. WW-2 carbines out there.
#3. One that has all the post war mod's.
They are all still WW-2 carbines, and putting one back to it's org. WW-2 configuration is not faking one, it's just correcting it back to the way it was made for WW-2 .
And if you have family members or friends that used them in Korea or Vietnam, then the post war carbines with all there mod's are the way to go, I like all of them,.
But, for some one to say that if you change the configuration from the way the Military last used them, that it is now a fake carbine, is just BS...IMHO.
I really like all the comments, and I agree there are a lot of experts here, and I have learned a lot over the years, and all of the above is just one man's opinion, and I am still trying to learn.
It is the little gun that help win WW-2.
Last edited by lboos; 04-27-2021 at 06:57 PM.
Quick math...... say 6 million made, 99% upgraded ..... leaves what about 60,000 possible Originals.
All done without a calculator, I'm too tired to find one.
Funny though Louis, That 'Everyone' seems to have 1 or 2 Originals.
Me ? If I've got a bad sear in my Underwood, I'm looking for a Underwood sear to replace it.
Feel lucky we can still own them.
Charlie-Painter777
A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...
Painter,
You are right, I should have been more clear, I meant 99% of those "clamed" to be org. not of the 6 million carbine's made.
Last edited by lboos; 04-27-2021 at 08:52 PM.
I've seen several originals here on the Carbine Forum over the years. Spend some time searching and you should be able to find a few - complete with pictures and data sheets verifying the parts. I believe I have (2) originals, although one of them has two damaged parts on it. The other one I've had for 5 years and have never started a thread on - yet! - Bob
I think there were more left in original configuration than 1%, just your odds of seeing them in the USA are much lower. Most the ones left intact would likely have been given away as war surplus/aid to foreign countries and thereby not really allowed back into country for the most part. For example I have seen two so far in my life, which were not 'corrected' or faked. One I suspect was from the Philippines, it was in really rough shape, hard to fake that type of wear over everything. The other I strongly suspect wasn't faked because my buddy bought it for way less than market value off someone who just had a M1 Carbine, and he didn't know what he had bought until I took a quick look at it.
I get that you don't like the idea your faking it, a lot of Americans seem to think that way, but doesn't change what your doing. If you are a collector it is about preserving history not altering it. Changing it because it suits your idea of history is altering it, not preserving it. I can't just take a Isreali K98k and take the 7.62 markings off it, rebarrel it to 8mm Mauser and call it a WWII K98k, even though your just 'changing the configuration back to WWII standard' and that's how it originally would have been. Your not correcting something if it isn't broken.
I've never bought into the 99% were rebuilt statements made and also remember not every carbine was totally rebuilt when its time came. There's so many variables with millions of carbines made that it would truly boggle the minds of those if they would take a step back and remember things like imperfect humans, lack of available parts, changing work requirements and possible time restraints just to name a few possibilities.
So that leads to a question for us novice collectors - what do you look for to determine if your carbine is original? I broke down my Underwood and completed a data sheet which revealed it has all of the correct parts it should have had when it left the factory. It needed a lot of love to bring it back to being a presentable and usable rifle. It looks original (patina, type 1, wear, etc.), the part diagram numbers say original, but how do I know it's original? This is a really interesting topic for me since I am currently looking at several other M1s for sale and I really wonder about my Underwood because it was a diamond in the rough when I got it and she became a true diamond when I finished her. After seeing some of the responses here, I now wonder how "original" she really is? Thanks!