Rosenthal Iwo flag pic

[imarangemaster]

Anyone who wants a JPEG of the Rosenthal picture of the raising of the flag (second one) on Iwo Jima, here is a link:

http://www.learnnc.org/lp/media/uplo.../iwo_jima1.jpg

I recently found it. It is very high-resolution at 1380x1111. I have it as the screen saver on my computer, since my dad was on Iwo.

I, by the way, have an original snapshot of the FIRST flag that was raised. If I remember right, my dad (who was to be the NCOIC of the Island signal office for the advance party of the Army contingent that landed with the Marines) got it from the Marine photographer who also took pics at the same time as Rosenthal. I think my dad went ashore in the first few days after the first waves. I will try to scan it when I get my new computer.

On the 1st day, he watched the Marines hit the beach from his LST through a rifle scope from an 03 sniper rifle. He only spoke to me of the things he saw through the scope one time, shortly before I went in the Army. It was over several tumblers of Chivas Regal. Let it suffice to say the things he told me he saw do not make it into the History books. He would talk about his other experiences on Iwo, including close calls, snipers, shelling etc. periodically, but, as I said, only spoke once of Invasion day... SOme of his snapshots he took himself, though, were pretty macabre.

It wasn't until I saw all the horrendous, gory, violent, senseless, and horrible things during my 20 years as a cop and as a Homicide and Coroner Investigator that I truly understood why he never spoke of it much.

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[patriot76]

Thanks for posting the photo, I'd love to see any photos your Dad may have, Keep posting them if you can. Did you know one of the guys in the photo was an American Indian? The poor guy drank himself to death after the war. He died of alcohol poisoning. I can't remember his name but the story goes that could not go to a bar and buy himself a drink when he got home, because he was Indian they would not serve him. They did a documentary on the guys that raised the flag. I saw it on TV on night. I wish I could remember the name of it. If anyone knows please post it.

[Tired Retired]

Most Americans will never know or understand the sacrifices made to preserve their freedom. Freedom is never free.

May we all pray that our children and their children know only peace and freedom which was paid for by the blood of those who have gone before....

Thanks, RM, for a reflective point...

[Mikey51]

I can understand how you must feel. I wasn't there, as I am only 59. But I remember well, what my grandfather told me. He was on the Cats, flying out of the Islands, picking up downed flyers and sailors, and they saved heaps. I also remember well, what my ex wifes father told me. He and a mate, mowed down about twenty Japs, with Owens, an Australian SMG, while the Japs were raping a group of nurses they had captured. They saved a few nurses, but at the end of the day, all the Japs were dead. Wouldn't it be nice, if the younger folk of today, really knew what happened ?. Mike.

[imarangemaster]

The Indian's name is Ira Hayes. He was of the Pima tribe. Johnny Cash did a song about him early in his career. Eastwoods movies "Flags of our Father's" and "Letters from Iwo Jima." are pretty decent. I would have loved to watch them with my father, but he passed in 2003.

In my history class, I show some clips from the History Channel about China and the "Rape of Nanging" by the Japanese, and Bataan death march. It has interviews of survivors on both sides and spares NO details. They won't let me teach about the Japanese Unit 731 that tested weapons, bombs, chemical, and biological agents on Chinese prisoners and entire villages. It makes Dr. Mengela look like a boy scout. I also cover the Holocaust extensively. This generation must not forget. My daughter in law's grandparents are Holocaust survivors.

I also use the first 25 minutes of Saving Private Ryan (the beach scene) in my class, and have the students put themselves in the place of the soldiers and "Write a letter home" essay assignment. Some "get it," but most don't now.

Mikey, in the last 10 years I have noticed a big change in curriculum and text books. Japanese atrocities are left out entirely and the Holocaust is lucky to get a couple paragraphs. Revisionist history...

[stickhauler]

The Indian's name is Ira Hayes. He was of the Pima tribe. Johnny Cash did a song about him early in his career. Eastwoods movies "Flags of our Father's" and "Letters from Iwo Jima." are pretty decent. I would have loved to watch them with my father, but he passed in 2003.

In my history class, I show some clips from the History Channel about China and the "Rape of Nanging" by the Japanese, and Bataan death march. It has interviews of survivors on both sides and spares NO details. They won't let me teach about the Japanese Unit 731 that tested weapons, bombs, chemical, and biological agents on Chinese prisoners and entire villages. It makes Dr. Mengela look like a boy scout. I also cover the Holocaust extensively. This generation must not forget. My daughter in law's grandparents are Holocaust survivors.

I also use the first 25 minutes of Saving Private Ryan (the beach scene) in my class, and have the students put themselves in the place of the soldiers and "Write a letter home" essay assignment. Some "get it," but most don't now.

Mikey, in the last 10 years I have noticed a big change in curriculum and text books. Japanese atrocities are left out entirely and the Holocaust is lucky to get a couple paragraphs. Revisionist history...

I've never seen Eastwood's movie, but James Bradley's book the film was made from is a helluva read. I recommend his next book "Flyboys" as well, both great reads and sources to clarify a lot of history, and how Japan saw their treatment of prisoners. It shows we don't have quite the moral high ground to criticize them, if you consider some of our own horrible treatment of those we held in previous conflicts.

[Mongo32]

I've never seen Eastwood's movie, but James Bradley's book the film was made from is a helluva read. I recommend his next book "Flyboys" as well, both great reads and sources to clarify a lot of history, and how Japan saw their treatment of prisoners. It shows we don't have quite the moral high ground to criticize them, if you consider some of our own horrible treatment of those we held in previous conflicts.

Stickhauler, I want to take a moment to add my two cents here... I only speak for myself, but I know many veterans and active duty that take a different view here, including myself. The Geneva Convention, The Hague and other treaties agree to "Humane" treatment of POWs or specific races during wartime. Now be real and ask what country follows that as closely as the United States? Prime example... The three Navy SEALS accused of abusing A KNOWN TERRORIST... A man that earned the nickname "The Finisher" by his own people for his horrific acts against mankind! By the way, all three have been acquitted, thanks to God for enough people that do not buy in to the political correct thoughts that our government seems to insist is required in today’s world! War is never just, it will never be just.. insted a violent means sometimes required, and never fair or humane. If you play fair and humane, the English language would be spoken about as much as Latin is in today's world.

Respectfully,
Tim McElhannon
OSCS (SW/AW) USN RET.

[imarangemaster]

Just look back to the Confederate prison Andersonville, or the Union prison at Elmira NY! Let's not forget the internment of all Japanese Americans by FDR. German POWs held in the states were treated far better than Japanese Americans...but we digress.

[stickhauler]

Oh, I agree, but his second book details atrocities our government either had a large role in, or stood by and ignored while they were going on. One reason the Japanese felt a particular bias against the Marines was the horrible things done by the "China" Marines against orientals in the years between 1927 and 1941.

[imarangemaster]

Back up a little further to the Philippines. During the uprising against us after we threw the Spanish out in 1898, there was the infamous order to "shoot all males 10 and older because they can hold a gun." Watch PBS "Crucible of Empire" for an eye opener. Being a History teacher, I realize that History is written by the winners...