M14 issued as SA instead of Selective?

[Bill Hollinger]

I also know Jerry didn't have any love for either the AR or M16. I did love his M14 though. He told me two well placed M14 rounds would bring down a water buffalo where is took a 20 round magazine with the M16

[Sarge]

The squad leader was supposed to have selector switches and a wrench to install them on his squads rifles should the need arise.
I never saw an M14 with a selector switch, but I was in an aviation unit when I turned in my Garand and got an M14. I was Not impressed!!!
The M14 on full auto is a worthless piece of Shi--!!! IF you are lucky, and aim low to the left you might get 2 rds on a siloutte, the rest of a 3 or 5 rd burst will be high to the right OFF the target! I have only known a couple of guys who could hold an M14 on target for more than 2 rds. I'm Not one of them and I shoot full autos on a regular basis.
I now own 2 M14 rifles/selector switches. I hardly ever shoot them, I just have them. I will take one to the range for someone who thinks they are just great, to shoot. I Never put but 2 rds in the mag and they usual hit the target with only the first shot.
Someone commented about the FN/FAL, IF I read his post right he thinks the FN is like the M14. I have to seriously disagree!!!
I have an FN/FAL with a run fast switch, it is one of my most favorite weapons to shoot. On full auto I can consistantly put 4 of a 5 rd burst on the target. I almost always get a flyer on #5. Subsequently I normaly shoot 3 rd bursts - ALL in the chest at 150 - 200 yds.
Sarge

[browningautorifle]

Part of our qualification was the full auto mode with the FN C2 in the Canadian Army. Most of the people couldn't get them to put more than the cursory two rounds on the target. The C1 was set on single the same as the M14 because of ammo wastage. The only ones exempt that rule were the Navy C2s which were a rifle with the full auto selector and plunger and a big C2 carved in the stock. They climbed more than just a bit. It will depend which countries' FN you have if you can control it. I didn't fire mine a couple of times, I carried it for 15 years. I just love to shoot both C1 and M14 and still prefer BOTH weapons on singles. They're both top rate.

[campperrykid]

M

....( Snip for Brevity )....
NM M14s had the switch axle welded on the inside so it could not be turned even if the cap was removed.

That's the way I remember it as well.
The first timed that I was issued an NM M14 , I put it in the car and drove to my Pa Dutch Grandmother's farmhouse and leaned it in the corner of kitchen by the back door.

[browningautorifle]

That part's interesting. I had never heard that before.

[campperrykid]

That happened sometime in the middle/late 1960's . Some quick factoids:
For years , The National Rifle and Pistol Matches ( USA ) at Camp Perry ( Ottawa County )Ohio were very heavily supported by the US Dept. of Defense. Significant numbers of active duty military supported the matches , including things like running the mess hall , pulling targets , coaching and instructing at the Small Arms Firing Schools ( SAFS )and the Junior and Tyro School.

The SAFS were completely Service run although some civilians ( example : Bill Jordan ) were sometimes guest speakers. SAFS was designed to help train civilians for various legit defense roles from soldier to rifle /pistol team coach.

All Service ammo and guns were issued free of charge . Gun storage was a competator/student responsibility.

Big boy rules , basically a list of don't-do-anything-dumbs and don't lose the gun.

Hope that helps to clarify things.

ETA:
Pa Dutch is short for Pennsyvania Dutch , an immigrant ethnic/time period group ( German speaking )that entered Pennsyvania circa 1650 through about 1820 or so. At least in the US during that era , almost all immigrants from northwesten and central Europe were likely to be considered Dutch by English speaking people.

[browningautorifle]

We used to be much the same here in Canada. The soldier was issued his rifle and he was responsible for it. When he traveled(usually by train) he carried it broken down in his kitbag. He kept it secured in his locker in the quarters. About the time of the FLQ in Quebec(1970) that changed.
The other thing I find interesting is the selector shaft lock on the M14's was welded before issue. I hadn't heard that and I talked to plenty of old USMC that were issued them.

[campperrykid]

Kind of an apples & oranges thing .
The US Marine teams were full time or reserve military . The M14(s?) that I signed for at Camp Perry were modified so as to be reasonable & prudent for issue to civilians . One issue in the US is that any gun that that fires full auto or can be easily converted to full auto is by Federal law a " Machine Gun " . To legal buy/own a "Machine Gun " at that time & place the citizen had to get fingerprinted , pay $200 , jump through some other hoops and wait a long time. Also , some law enforcement people might become very concerned if they saw a " machine gun " , some twenty round mag's ( look a little like BAR mag's ) & an ammo can marked for " sniper " ammo ( Lake City National Match ) in the back seat of an 18 year old kid's car. Welding up the selector was a simple solution to a complex problem .

[Mk VII]

As late as 1992 I drew an NM M14 (an H&R one) from the DCM at Perry, and drove out the gate with it, and for all they knew, out of their lives. You got a couple of magazines in long-term packaging, and a M1907-type sling (made of rather soft leather). The selector lock was welded in place.

[joem]

We trained on M14's. Mine had the go faster switch. Many others were SA. Before we deployed, they were turned in and we were issued M16's.