New member with a question - Lee Speed Carbine: Jameson Raid and other questions

[Jc5]

I have been researching the encircled V mark for some years, along with the encircled E mark that almost always accompanies it. I have been steadily developing and eliminating various theories. All sorts of collectors and experts have offered their opinions, but I am convinced that (so far) none of them know for certain. I doubt there is anyone left alive who remembers for sure, and the number of men who actually ever knew this information was probably very small. This was a long time ago. I'm sure the very last of these rifles was made prior to WWII. From examining specimens and weighing the various theories, I believe the following to be true:

1) They are not proof marks
2) They are not likely to be government view marks, although I once suspected they might have something to do with government inspection
3) They have nothing to do with Metford or Enfield rifling
4) I have seen at least the V on a .22, though it might have been stamped there on the original .303 barrel before it was converted
5) They do not stand for "Enfield" and "Vickers"

Unless some archival discovery occurs, only time and sufficient collection of data will tell.

Rowdy -- I hope you are well. We are past due for a catch up call.
SMLE addict - I am not sure I sent you a proper reply to the great info you sent me a while ago on your Lee Speeds. My apologies--time just gets away. I will email you.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[RobD]

SMLE addict, I think your stock disc on your carbine reads:
June 1899
British South Africa Company
Inventory or rack number 18

My reasons are
1. At this date, BSA was known as BSA&M Co. It became BSA without the M in 1902.
2. I've not seen a stock disc with the manufacturer's name on it

However, against this theory is that the British South Africa Company is usually (but not always) abbreviated BSAC or BSA Co without punctuation between the initials

In addition, your carbine is very likely to have been made by BSA&M Co, as BSA&M Co made most if not all the long arms destined for South Africa. Could you start a thread on your carbine showing all the markings?

Rob

PS The British South Africa Company actively participated in the South African War which broke out in Oct 1899, and the Crown was actively arming loyal forces in the months preceding the war. A list of British South Africa Company units who fought is here Anglo Boer War - British South Africa Company units

[smle addict]

Thanks for the info, Rob! That certainly helps clarify things. I will start a separate thread when I can dig that carbine out of the safe in the next couple of days.

The carbine is an Enfield manufactured MLE Carbine Mk I. Enfield produced the service carbines for military service, with BSA and LSA producing the "volunteer" patterns. So this one had me scratching my head for years. I continually asked myself, "why would an enfield produed carbine be wearing a stock disc with a BSA manufacture marking?" Of course, I realize this disc may have been swapped in in over the years, but it's been there since I bought it in 1992.

Thanks again

[Roy]

In NZ Lee Speeds are encountered with the R marking on the butt tang and it is thought that these rifles are those which were issued to NZ forces from Rhodesian supplies since the NZers only had Martini enfield carbines when they turned up.

[Rowdy]

Thank you for that possible connection Roy - and being NZers they took their rifles home with them of course.

[Wallace66]

Thank you all for your assistance and apologies for not having posted earlier, but life is never simple.

Eventually contacted the Australian War Memorial, Canberra, for assistance with the rifle identification and informed it was of cultural significance.

So, as one should, it was donated to the AWM in late June 2022.

It is with considerable pride, as a citizen of the Commonwealth, that the Veldt carbine will now continue its life in the hands of our nations military historical curators. This piece is a fine representation of the second Boer war. It is planned to continue researching the rifle both by the AWM curators and myself.