When did they start stamping the "T"s on snipers

The Trials "T" that recently sold on the Gunbrooker auction, No 4 MK1 Enfield 1931 trials rifle sniper C&R NR : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com

Has the "T" stamped on the left receiver and the rifles serial numbers stamped under the upper forearm.
I have a similar all matching Trials "T" also with a mismatch scope and mount as the auction rifle has and it also all the early features like the waisted front sight protector, the screw in the cock, unstaked pad screws etc. The original scope number, #6041, can still be read on the stock behind the receiver. However it does not have the receiver "T" stamp nor the serial number stamped on the forearm. My rifle is not quite as untouched as the auction rifle as the stocks have been lightly sanded/smoothed but doesn't appear done enough to eliminate the forearm serial numbers. Were the receiver "T"s and the forearm serial numbers considered later features? Maybe done on some of later Trial "T"conversions? Ray

Ray, Peter is probably the best one to post on this, but subject to his clarification; there is no consistency on the Trials rifles, nor on early Holland & Holland conversions on the body wall 'T'. They started to appear consistently during the 1943 run of production rifles. However, I gather the instruction to armourers was that rifles should be stamped with a letter 'T' to denote their 'telescope rifle' status, so where this had not already been done (ie on the early rifles), as they came in to ordnance, the T was often added after the event. This does seem to have been a somewhat variable occurrence though, & so you will see some 'no-T', some 'standard t', & some 'variant T' rifles. Where I say 'variant T' I simply mean that the armourer would have used any suitable letter stamp, whether it happened to be of the same font & size as that used at Holland & Hollands or not. For example I own two BSA 1943 rifles that are perfectly correct, but the side wall T's are smaller than the usual - perhaps they went through the same armourer's hands??!!

Hope this helps.

ATB.

Thanks Roger, I assumed that the earliest Enfield Trials snipers didn't have the "T" stamped but then I saw the one on Gunbrooker with the "T" stamp and it's serial number was earlier then mine and it threw my thoughts off. I think you explained now were the "T"s were stamped on rifles later by ordnance that didn't originally have it when first converted at the Enfield factory. So somewhere along the line, the Trials "T" in the auction received the "T" stamp but it did not have it when it was originally converted at Enfield or could it have been a Trials rifle that was converted at a later date then mine? Ray

Thanks Ray. To the best of my knowledge all of the Trials rifles were converted at Enfield during 1941 (??possibly into 1942 as well??), & I doubt very much if any of them had body wall T's when first converted. However, in line with the instructions to mark all sniper's rifles with the T, they would have been marked after the event, but as I mentioned above, this only seemed to happen in practice some of the time. Does that help?

Cheers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

Thanks Ray. To the best of my knowledge all of the Trials rifles were converted at Enfield during 1941 (??possibly into 1942 as well??), & I doubt very much if any of them had body wall T's when first converted. However, in line with the instructions to mark all sniper's rifles with the T, they would have been marked after the event, but as I mentioned above, this only seemed to happen in practice some of the time. Does that help?

Cheers.

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Yes it helps thank you Roger. I thought I was sure the Trials rifles didn't have a receiver "T" and it just threw me off when I saw that Trials rifle with the "T", Ray

This subject has been aired on numerous occasions in the past, and recent past too.

Peter I had read a number of the past posts on the "T" stamps already but the reason I posted my question here is that I wondered about the Trials rifle on auction having the "T" stamp and just wanted to confirm that the Trials sniper rifles at Enfield were not stamped with the "T" at the time of their sniper conversion and Roger answered that question for me, Ray