Hi,
I have a deact in South Africa MkII Inglis 13T3123
David
Printable View
Hi,
I have a deact in South Africa MkII Inglis 13T3123
David
Good morning Chris,
I have a MK I Bren the details are given below.
Manufacturer :- Enfield (stamped with superimposed ED)
Date:- 1941
Serial Number:- H4863
Bi-pod stamped:- MA but can not find serial number.
Barrel stamped:- N3264 776N
FTR Stamp:- MA/52/FTR
Deac Date:- 1997
Any information you may have on this weapon would be gratefully received.
I have added some pictures below.
Attachment 55494Attachment 55495Attachment 55496Attachment 55497Attachment 55498
Regards
Peter
MA is the Australian Lithgow marking
hi I have a mk 1 Enfield 1942, looks like a factory re-work with new stamp crown over E then 3k broad arrow 46, upper and lower, barrel nut serial numbers P 7644, barrel is a bit of a mongrel, nice clear numbers 15 T 2571, and then smaller numbers underneath 2885?E and L9856 and a strike through looks like 8998S, bi pod not clear could be an M will look for more, any more info would be gratefully received.
yours Graham
Hi, I've a Mk1m 1942 Inglis. The receiver, buttslide and piston serial is 2T2300, the barrel's serial is P5505 and the breech block's serial is B2429 and stamped MC?
Gwildor, without knowing the master number on the rear of the body, we can't really get to the nitty gritty unless what you call the upper and lower are the body and butt slide - P7644. The 2885E number is(?) the steel batch number while L-9856 and 8998-S struck through are the number of the guns the barrel was previously fitted to. The 'S' indicates that it was the second barrel for gun ?8998. The M on the bipod is a red herring as the bipods are not numbered to a particular gun
You could simply line through the gun numbers (but NOT the steel batch number) and carefully re-number with your gun number. That's what we used to do almost every day when we were fitting/refitting barrels or doing same by fitting/matching up part work barrel sets to other part worn sets/guns.
Callboggy, you coulkd do the same to your barrel and that way it'd be a full house too. Generally speaking* Bren breech blocks and piston extensions weren't numbered to the guns. The MC is a Monotype Corporation from Redhill in Surrey
*But this is not a hard and fast rule. The 7.62mm L4 Bren breech blocks and piston extensions WERE serially numbered to the gun and this practice did tend to carry on over to the Bren too and as an Armourer at a unit with a 'mixed fleet' of 7.62 and .303 Brens for ages and ages, I numbered ours. The breech block with a scratchy pen in the left(?) side recess and the piston extension in the flat in front of the piston post.
Next question.......? I expect others will fill you in with more detail
Enfield Mk1
1941
Sn on rear of receiver-F8939
Should it have a regular Mk1 stock with the flip down support or the Mk1 modified stock w/o the support? Thanks for any input. Fwiw, it's a registered machinegun and sweet shooter.
F-8939 should bve what we call a 'last stage intermediate' That is the last stage of the transition between an original Mk1 Bren to the more common Mk1A. You's will (hopefully) be a full Mk1 with the only vestige of it's Mk1/original ancecstry being the fluted gas cylinder.
The fluted gas cylinder remained as the last part to change to the fully simplified Mk1A design because the fluted gas cylinder was used as a holding point or medium during an important machining operation.
Hopefully the experts will chime in if that's not quite correct or my numbering data is out of synch.......
Thanks for the information.
//IMG_0891.jpg
trying to learn about pics
Enfield Mk 111, dated 1944
SN: EA 9656
Re-chambered South African 7.62mm
Strange..... All Mk3's were numbered LB xxxxx except the late ones which were what we called the informative number type. A picture would be useful
EA 9656 is an odd number and most likely not the original unless it is LB9656 which would be marked Mk3 rather than MkIIIQuote:
Originally Posted by 02maddog
I've taken the number from the barrel nut - it's the only number that's not been milled out. I'm presuming it would be the same as the SN? If it's not the same then all I've got are SADF numbers. Definitely marked as 'MK III'. I will take some pics and post just as soon as I've worked out how to post them on here. :)
I can understand why the barrel nut wasn't cleaned up. They were diamond hard and a real PITFA to number! Best done with a scratchy pen or diamond drag cutter. If you stamped them prepare to knacker your stamps OR if you hit the nut handle where it was hollow underneath, the buggers could just punch through.........
If it's marked as MkIII then it has to be one of the first 8500 Mk3 guns.
Photos attached as promised.
OUCH.............. I bet that made the number stamps sing when he whacked them like that! The barrel nuts (and the catches) are diamond hard........... You'd shoot out a barrel before you wore out a barrel nut, believe me. As a matter of interest, what backsight did they/SA use? Was it the bog standard Mk3 .303/yards backsight or a recalibrated 7.62mm sight.
It was said that the .303" backsight could be used on the 7.62mm guns if you read the yard range scale as metres. That might have been sort-of correct UP TO about 100 yards but thereafter, following a logarithmic scale of whitewash, it was a total farce. Or in official Army terminology heard in Armourers shops of the era, ' load of total bollo......' What's the word I am looking for now?
What the .303" gun was useful for was as the sub calibre aiming gun for the early big and beefy MOBAT and lightened CONBAT as both trajectories were a match. Sorry for wandering off course a bit
This SADF 7.62 seems to have a recalibrated sight. I can stick a photo up later now that I know how :)
I'm pretty sure all my SANDF guns have normal .303 sights to be read as Meters, the Mk1s are 100% bog standard.
Brit Plumber, I'm intrigued. Did you see the number on the barrel nut that I posted above? Do you think that is the original SN?
Mk3 guns only came with LB (Light Bren) prefix serial numbers. Some of the last had what were called codified numbers - but not from your era
Bren Mk II marked Inglis 1943
SN 11T7438
The last digit (the 8) is obscured due to some damage so I can't swear to the sn.
It's a registered pre May 1986 dealer sample.
Bren Mk1. Enfield 1940 D Dovetail Kings Crown.
D 693 to upper and lower Receiver, Barrel Nut and Barrel. DP
With regards the lower receiver another number is stamped just above, F286 followed by the Enfield logo.
F-286 was the steel batch number
Just been going through my collection and will send more serials when finished but could anyone tell me what the small symbol (D) is for, its on a 1942 Enfield Bren and is on many of the parts, such as rear sight, bipod, cocking slide, metal bracket on butt e.t.c, Its not the Enfield E inside D just a D in brackets ?
Thanks in advance, Andy.
Doesn't ring any bells. A D in brackets? A picture would help
Thanks Peter, just posted picture, ive rubbed in some white chalk to make it clearer.
Mmmmmmmm
mk3 bren 1949 Birmingham proof house number LB39190 ALL MATCHING NUMBERS plus correct magazine very good condition. Sorry no photos as camera at property in Spain.:)
Couple of tripod numbers:
AGE A1005 - 1941 dated with AA handle clips
AGE A7615 - 1943 without holes for clips
Both are Mk1 with AA legs and bracket
http://photos.imageevent.com/gazzavc...20I%201940.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/gazzavc...0I%201940a.jpg
6T6880 1940 Enfield, restored to functional semi-auto LMG
Surely something';s wrong somewhere CSM? It can't be a 6T Canadian number AND an Enfield 1940 gun can it? Or am I missing something?
It’s probably cobbled together with sections taken from more than one cut up body.
When there a big gaps in a cut up body it’s common to use “filler” or sections from another body to close the gaps before welding. A big gap will have more shrinkage when welding.
Some of these “re-welded” bodies are made by using overlapping sections from several cut bodies to reduce the gaps between sections as much as possible.
It doesn’t matter if the sections come from a Mk1, Mk2 or Mk3. People just use the bits that fit and weld them up.
Another possibility is the “Enfield” etc were engraved by the builder. Those marks around “Enfield” look like porosity. Those are the bubbles you sometimes see in a poor weld. The "Enfield" looks like it was done by hand.
Yep, got that Vince and CSM Archer. But it's another one saved.
Yes, Sir. It’s always good to see one more brought back to life. :thup:
Will there be a page or two about these resurrected Brens in the book?
The receiver section was definitely stamped with the Enfield crown and 1940, the rear chunk was, i'm almost positive, from the same demil job. As Vincent says, we have to sometimes overlap the sections, especially when they are torch cut. Many of the early demils were saw cut which makes them far easier to restore. I'll go look at the serial again in case i've got a case of early onset alzheimers.....
Peter, there is a very interesting series of videos on youtube by a poster called ProjectGuns. There are 4 parts so far, but they detail how he rewelds cut up receivers and has to fill the gaps with scrap pieces.
The link to the first video is here: Bren build part 1 - YouTube
If that doesn't play, do a search within youtube for "ProjectGuns Bren Build"
Hi,
I'm a little confused with how the serial numbers work for Bren's. I have a list of Bren Gun Serial numbers from Ian Skennerton's .303-in. BREN Identification series. In there it states an Enfield 1937 Enfield BREN should have a range from:
A1 to A999
B1
B2 to B103 (Dp guns)
1938 Enfield BREN should have a range from:
B104 Skn model
B105 to B9999
However I see BREN guns of that date being referenced with numbers such as:
Serial: A3408
Year: 1938
Make: Enfield
Which is the correct serial number for example, of an Enfield dated 1937 or 1938?
Nobody really knows for sure unless they've actually seen them all. But 1938 started somewhere around A0400 or so and ended around A6700 or so. 1937 would be up to A0400. So your example A3408/1938 would be right
But your querie raises a good point, and it's this. When you write a book, the first person to read it (or the 10,000th in this case) immediately knows more than the author. That's because he now knows ALL that the author has written PLUS the tiny bit he knew before!
We know that those FACTORY made guns designated DP (as opposed to thousands later CONVERTED to DP by List at Dagenham) were a largish batch that were failed/rejected by the Army Inspectorate for reason(s) unknown and only accepted after being downgraded to DP/Training status
Hmm, for whatever reason I seem not to have listed my Bren.
MkI
D this really looks like an E).
1941
Ser nr is K.6208
It is a dream to shoot. One of my favorites of the several FAs I own.
Sarge
Yours is one of the what we call Mk1A guns. Not an official designation but a designation attached to production guns AFTER the true Mk1 production and after the 6 intermediate stages of transition from Mk1 to the wartime and subsequent Mk1A
There you go, GaryS from Carlisle - another transient forumer. Pick your brains, get a response and never heard from again. Not even a thanks as he closed the door....
Thanks for confirming the 37 & 38 Enfield serial numbers. While I'm always on the look out for interesting articles to read, I doubt I have the capacity be a regular contributor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Just a bit of input on your particular Bren would be interesting enough to start a thread run. You - or anyone else for that matter - don't need to be regulars. Just think of what you could glean
Another Serial No - LB53853 Mk3 dated 1954
Hi, new to the forum - just picked up a Bren serial no E208 which is a Mk1 1940. Hoping you may be able to help with any history or information - don't know if you already have this listed. Thanks Martin
Not much info for you. E208 was made for contract E-150/1939 dated 19-9-39 and it is a first stage intermediate Bren. Mathematically it was produced, probably in July/August 1940
Hopefully others here might have more info for you
There goes Kyte, another one who we didn't hear from again.............
Hi All,
I'm newbie here although I've been loitering a while. Anyways, I have just aquired UE57 A5114 MK3 Enfield 1957 with all matching numbers & LB53860 Mk 3 Enfield 1954, again, with matching numbers. LB53860 is soon to be going up North to a buddy but I'd be grateful for any info on either please?
LB (light Bren, a Mk3)53860 - ordered at Enfield on order number 79/1952 for the UK War Dept/MoD as a batch of 1,100 guns. Don't know anything about the UE57 gun unless the others can add something.
Thank you Peter, much appreciated��
As Peter has said on LB53860 Mk 3 Enfield 1954 a batch of 1100 (52934-543831)
UE57 A5114 MK3 Enfield 1957 was in a batch of 1000 (A4381-A5380) dispatched to Woolwich.
ATB Kevin
Cheers. Kev, much appreciated��
Good Evening. I have just purchased my first Bren.
It's a 1955 Mk 3 and the serial number is U.E 55 A3452 It does have the Enfield Mark.
Hoping to find a little info, and obviously add it to the database.
Many Thanks
My Bren is 1941 MK 1 with the D logo all matching serial numbers K.6411, all early parts including the correct tripod, when I looked up the date of manufacture its seems to be a November or December 1940 dated Bren according to the Skenneton Bren publication but was told that my Bren serial number dates the gun mid 1941. I know they made and dated parts before the year came into effect which i noticed with ordnance. Who is right.
Mid 1941 produced. Ian's Serial lists are based upon Contract dates I believe. Some other details are also incorrect for example the booklet states A1 to A999 for Enfield however we all know it to be A1 to A9999.
I would like to see a photo to see what early features you refer to, does it have the second dovetail?
Let me re-phrase that I have a Bren not DD but made just after DDs, that has all parts for that year of Bren 1941 rather than a mix of Mk2 Mk3 bits added over the years as you see on most Brens. So my Bren is mid1941 produced, the Skennerton listing is not correct.
Don't understand any of that thread (thread 160) Topfmine! What about a photo that might better ask the question............. Without a photo it seems to me that you have a bog standard K-reg Mk1A gun
Posted elsewhere but, here are my gun numbers but with a bit more detail:
Enfield Mk1 1940 D8956 - DE marked, BSA stacked rifle markings on butt parts, matching butt group, barrel nut and barrel numbers, butt disc fitted, Mk 1* barrel
Inglis Mk1m 1941 N2790 - FTR'd Lithgow 1952 fitted with Mk ll barrel
Enfield Mk3 1949 LB38428 - all matching Nos inc barrel, looks to have had very little use
Just to add the serial of my recently acquired INGLIS 1942. MK1M Bren. IT5341. on upper and lower receiver, near butt. Also has New Zealand serial to all black barrel , NZ 5839'. plus, opposite barrel nut, 'NZ3543'. which is stamped AND engraved.
Came with chest (no bumper bar on front) this has '5839' painted on, same number as barrel.
Seem to be lots of 'JI' Markings, certain parts not sure about ( a newbie,my first Deac and probably the last after the recent UK/EU law change )
VERY pleased with purchase overall though has an odd bipod! looks like it started life as an adjustable one, but is now non adjustable... worn finish doesn't match rest of gun which is very good so, at some point in its life it has acquired a replacement I suppose. cannot remove as barrel is now fixed? not that it matters, just never seen another bipod like this.......so far.
Can anyone tell me date of manufacture (month) and anything about its history?
1T5341 is going to be from around May 42, this is based on average production so it could actually be either side.
Thank you, much appreciated!
Same here. It won't be far out from that - if at all!
Just realised, I FORGOT A SERIAL......there's ANOTHER serial number. 'IT8279' on the barrel next to nut lever/latch.
'IT8279' Must be another Canadian Bren?........is this one listed?
The number on the barrel locking nut is not the serial number for your gun so is irrelevant. It belongs to the gun with that number on the body. The barrel locking nut is numbered to the gun for technical reasons.
i just picked up another kit its and mk1m sn# M.7439 rounded rear receiver dates looks like 1941 hal of the 1 was cut :thdown:
Hello Brit Plumber, I hope i'm not wasting your time. This is my first Bren and I know next to nothing about them. I have a parts kit that i am putting together and I have some questions about some of the parts. It is marked MK3 1945, the serial number on the receiver was torched away. It is marked LB19670 on the lower and the bolt carrier. The barrel does not seem to go with the gas cylinder key. Any information you have will be appreciated. Thanks
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1180468-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1180469-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1180470-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1180471-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1180472-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1180473-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1180474-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1180475-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1180476-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1180477-1.jpg
Looks like you have a good start on welding up a "sarco" style cut receiver. Good Luck with the build.
Later 42rocker
Hi 42rocker, the barrel nut detent area was the giveaway. It is a Sarco kit, I am happy with what I got, the condition, the extras, and the low cost, but I need to get another barrel, or am I missing something. The one I have does not play well with the key on the housing gas shield, Do I have a MK2 barrel? I saw that some gas cylinders have the gas shield on them to center a barrel with no keyway (MK2?). That won't look right on my housing. I ordered a short barrel with the keyway. Will see how it fits when it shows up. Is the bipod right for a MK 3? ED34 marking? This is just going to be a Frankenshooter but it would be nice if I can make it look correct. So LB19670 is the serial number? If it is I might restamp the housing. Thanks for for the encouragement and I would appreciate any and all information on what I have.
Good questions that I wish I had good answers to. But you will need to wait till britplumber comes along or someones else. I understand the want to get it back close to what it was at the start. Enjoy the build.
Later 42rocker
Hi 42rocker, 14 degrees today. I finished up work on the mag cover slots. On to the mag well insides. Bolt, bolt carrier, and lower frame all fit. More weld to finish.
We had a cool day also. Was around 60, had to put on a long sleeve t-shirt when I was working outside. Normally a Sarco style receiver is cut thru the serial number on the top of the back of the receiver. That said the other numbers still could be the serial number. Hope brit plumber pops in and helps out with this one.
Wish I was welding them up like you are. Looking forward to it. Yesterday and today was spent on 1 to 1 scale bathroom work. Still need to spend about 5 or 6 hours to finish everything up. Of course have a Gunshow next weekend to get ready to set up. Have 2 tables to fill.
Enjoy the build.
Later 42rocker
Hi Rocker, 60 sounds cold enough to make the pythons hibernate. I hope you do well and enjoy the show. Anyone, I could use some help identifying the barrel and some parts that I have. I think the barrel is MK2 and the extras I got are the MK3 flash hider, carry handle and gas block. As I said its my first Bren and I am Learning, but slowly. Overall I am impressed by the amount of machining to make a war time production gun. Thinking of the percentage of metal converted to chips vs what was left for the gun when time and raw materials would be in short supply.
Some where I saw the before weight and the after weight of the receiver. I "believe" I remember 50 lbs before and 14 when done. Remember the floor scrap, millings could be melted and recast again. But YES what an amount of cutting. There was/is a company that was making bm59 receivers to replace the cut up ones that came in the kits.
Received a few Bren Tripod parts from BRP today and after I got home had a few minutes to clean and work with them. Happy to say I almost have everything that I need to get the Tripods to the stage that I want them at. Then after the gunshow, the following weekend I hope to start welding up a Bren receiver. At least that's what I'm planning at this time. Good Luck with your build.
Later 42rocker
My contribution from a kit I picked up at Knob Creek last year.
And an L4A3 that I’ve just acquired https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1274208b-1.jpg
Hi there,
my Mk I is an Enfield 1940, serial number E 1976, with dovetail joint. It does not have the Royal Cipher.
Greetings
T
Hi everyone,
I’m new here.
Bren Mk1
E in D
1942
Serial no. X445
Tripod complete with AA legs, all parts marked CCM
Serial no. M9042
Dated 41
NZ^A marked 1445
Cheers, Steve
Here's a new piece of info relating to serial numbers from Canada. This can put an exact manufacturing.inspection date to an exact gun.
We know that Inglis Mk1m Bren, serial number 4T9762 was inspected by the UK and Canada inspection board on February 6th 1943. This was done for the Small Arms Division for shipment to England for a specific trial.
This bit of info might help identify exactly when a particular batch of guns were produced.