No 4 Mk1 T Transit box Reproductions/Canadian Version

For some time now I have been busy researching and finally building reproduction sniper rifle transit boxes. So far I have seen quite a few different variations of these boxes both in person and over the internet.The box dimensions are pretty cut and dried, but have seen a mulitude of interior colours, stencilling on the fronts, backs and lids, different carrying handles and so on.
I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread regarding these boxes and ask for some input, history and possibly more pictures of original boxes other than the ones already posted. I think to narrow it down, I wonder if we could just start with the Canadian version of the boxes? To start anyone can view the excellent 160 page photo essay on the No 4 mk1 T sniper rifle by Badger.

Few question maybe someone may be able to answer are as follows:

1- Was there a standard colour used on the interior of the Canadian version and is it varnish, paint or some kind of stain? I understand that paint was called "scamic" (thanks for that Peter L)
2- What was the proper colour of the felt that was used to protect the rifle in the keepers, and on the lid? I have seen yellow, dark blue and grey felt.
3- Was there a standard Canadian military stencil to indicate the boxes' contents? I have seen so many different stencils it's hard to figure out what is really original anymore and would like to know more about the history of some of this stencilling and where it originated.

Hoping you guys can add some insight and hopefully some pictures. Thanks

Grant580

Here is one of the boxes I reproduced

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...TRANSIT1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ANSITBOX-1.jpg

How much for a copy?

Cneers
..MJ..

Looks great !
I'm looking forward to your l42a1 version.
G

I'll trade you a stay at my beach house next winter.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...308b3fea-1.jpg

....LOL....

OK, you get two boxes for that!! LOL!!

I am almost done a couple of other boxes, one with a clear interior finish and a couple with the "scamic" finish and will post some pictures soon. I will also be getting a batch of "purplish" coloured varnish made up and will be trying that on the interiors as it more resembles the Canadian sniper boxes I have seen.

I'd speak to BDL because he had some perfect repro leather handles made. And I mean PERFECT, right down to the texture and thickness of the folds etc etc

I wonder if we can dig up a paint spec that can be used to dial in the internal finish?

We'd have the boxes painted by the paint sprayers in the VM's workshop and the markings would be quickly stencilled on. As a result, they left us looking pretty basic-but-functional. Our stencil sets were punched out on a machine less the serial numbers that always seem to be a different format.

However, once the Company arms storemen got hold of ther kit, well, it just went from bad to worse with any paint that was handyt being the norm, applied with what always looked like a shaving brush

I goggled "scamic" today and it turns out that scamic is a particular paint tone/colour. It's proper nomenclature is "060 scamic green, shade 314 Indian Army" according to one website. I thought it was that "purplish/reddish colour paint we see on some transit boxes, both bren and Enfield.

Are you a chippy Grant? That's another REME technical term for anyone who deals with wood..... from a bodgy builder to a highly skilled cabinet maker! The woodwork is certainly good. Are they exact copies, down to the dovetailed ends etc etc? Do you have a dovetailing machine?

A 'tinny' is either a can of drink or anyone who deals in metalwork. From the roughest welder with an over amp'ed arc welder to the highest skilled machinist!

I was planning on building one/some myself, and was wondering , on the originals were the dovetails hand cut or done on a router jig? I have some router dovetailing jigs, but if they were hand cut originally, that's possible too.

I would imagine that as they were produced at a factory, most at REMPLOY at Papworth in Cambridge or Elliots in Pembroke Steet in Newbury, that they'd be machine cut

I used to know a fellow who worked at Elliots as a young lad in nthe war, assembling Horsa glider fuselages. He remembers the Bren boxes but they were all semi-assembled, ready to be fully assembled elsewhere. By semi assembled, the sides were finished with all the internals screwed in place. All the final assemblers had to do was fix the sides and ends together and screw the base on.

I suppose that it's reasonable to expect that this is what happened to the No4T chests. He remembers the Bren chests because those are the ones he saw during his national service......., that were so bloody heavy!

Greetings All,
When I had the Lithgow No1 MkIII HT reproduction case made, the builder went through a supplier of stencils to those that were restoring military vehicles and they turned out well. I still have them stored in the US if anyone wants them but it will be quite awhile (a year?) before I can put my hands on them. I can't remember why we chose the internal color (red) we did except that he had some research to support it.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...JED6EpZl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...w2sDUBil-1.jpg


Have a great day,
Michael

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Are you a chippy Grant? That's another REME technical term for anyone who deals with wood..... from a bodgy builder to a highly skilled cabinet maker! The woodwork is certainly good. Are they exact copies, down to the dovetailed ends etc etc? Do you have a dovetailing machine?

A 'tinny' is either a can of drink or anyone who deals in metalwork. From the roughest welder with an over amp'ed arc welder to the highest skilled machinist!

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Well, I guess I am a "chippy" Peter!, not sure if I rate as a highly skilled cabinet maker yet, but just a "box builder" Thank you for your compliment, I appreciate it.
I am doing my best to build them as close to the originals as possible and my "model" has always been the Canadian sniper transit box in the excellent 160 page photo essay posted by Badger some time ago on milsurp.com. I have a supply of approximately 21 sets of Canadian four screw hinge/hasp sets that I aquired from a fellow Canadian gun nut who has salvaged a bunch from some No 7 boxes. I do have a copy of the blueprints that were circulating on the net that I have been using, but suspect they are of British origin, which of course are very close to the Canadian boxes.
Because I build them to sell I have chose to build them with only with 3/8 inch finger joints on the corners for now because I am not sure if people would be willing to pay the extra $$ for the dovetails, as they are more labour intensive. I do not have a dovetail jig as of yet, but plan on buying one soon with all the attachments and then I can start doing the dovetails.

I think one of my biggest issues right now is trying to find a colour match for the interior of the Canadian version boxes. The Canadian boxes I have seen seem to have the more "purplish/reddish" colour and the British boxes seem to be more of a reddish colour on the inside.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbonesmith

I was planning on building one/some myself, and was wondering , on the originals were the dovetails hand cut or done on a router jig? I have some router dovetailing jigs, but if they were hand cut originally, that's possible too.

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Hello tbonesmith

I would assume that the dovetails were cut by machine, but also read somewhere that in some of the factories that produced them that they were hand cut and took about 3 hours per box. Not sure if this would be true about hand cutting them, but it could be because back then I doubt if they had the fancy router jigs and stuff hey do now-adays. It would be interesting to find out about that, perhaps someone will reply about it?
A dovetail is not really as hard to do as most people think, you just need a good set of chisels, backsaw and a dovetail marking jig, all of which you can aquire from an outfit here in Canada called Lee Valley Tools. They are accessible online and they are awesome to deal with and only sell the best tools known to man. It would be closer to the originals if you could do the dovetails for sure. There was a fellow sometime ago on Canadian gun nutz who built a box out of maple and used dovetails, should check that out, he did an awesome job.
I do simple 3/8 inch finger joints on mine which is quick and easy and the 3/8 inch spacing works evenly into the height diamensions of the box.

If there is anyway I can help you with your box, let me know and I can also get you a set of original hardware and leather handles, stencils made up etc,,

grant580

Thanks very much. I'll keep watching this thread with interest.
Also it looks a beautiful job you've done with yours thus far.
I am a shipwright/boatbuilder by trade, and have been working as a cabinetmaker for the past few years, and recently did some tool boxes very similar in construction method and size to these, and even with jig cut dovetails I can appreciate the time and effort you must have gone to, to finish your previous boxes to the standard it appears you have.
Cheers for the photos and the info.
All the best with your great repro's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbonesmith

Thanks very much. I'll keep watching this thread with interest.
Also it looks a beautiful job you've done with yours thus far.
I am a shipwright/boatbuilder by trade, and have been working as a cabinetmaker for the past few years, and recently did some tool boxes very similar in construction method and size to these, and even with jig cut dovetails I can appreciate the time and effort you must have gone to, to finish your previous boxes to the standard it appears you have.
Cheers for the photos and the info.
All the best with your great repro's.

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Thank you for the compliments tbonesmith. Have you tried to build a sniper transit box yet?
Took a few pictures of a box I have on the go that I varnished the interior clear. Once the interior dries I lightly steel wool it and then wax it with good furniture wax that comes from the UK. Still have the stencils to go on it, which is often the hard part because you have to let the paint cure a long time or else the green pulls off with the stencils I use.
I have also included a picture of a set of hardware as they look when I start out with them, all the leather, screws and a set of stencils that I use on my boxes. The hinges have four screws which means they are Canadian.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...TDONE023-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...TDONE007-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...TDONE011-1.jpg

The last picture shows the detail of the hasp being held in place with a brass rivet and you can see the C broad arrow stamp I put on the lid. I had this C broad arrow stamp made up by a Croatian Master Engraver out West. You can also see that about the last two inches of the lid has a "T" shaped joint in it that holds a piece of wood measuring 2 inches by 5 inches with the grain going the other way to prevent warping.

Just a minor point, but shouldn't the round base of the staple be recessed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Just a minor point, but shouldn't the round base of the staple be recessed?

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Yes, Peter, I think you are right about that. I have seen boxes with some recessed and some not. I think I will start recessing them from now on as it would look better.
When you don't recess the staples/posts you have to set the hasp 1/8 of an inch ahead, or past the front face of the lid. The reason for this is the back side of the hasp where the "keyhole" slot is has to fit flat against the round staple/post mounting disc so the hasp closes, or locks up tight. When I install the brass rivet I have to slightly countersink the rivet head with a forstner bit and this does not leave much room from the countersink to the face of the lid. Hope that make sense.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...TURES004-1.jpg

This picture shows closer detail of the brass rivet and if the backing plate for the staple/post was recessed the hasp would be set farther back and that rivet and countersink would also be set back 1/8 inch more from the face of the lid.

Thanks for that tip Peter, it's comments like yours that are helping my box builds to be closer to the originals than ever. Please keep the comments coming!

I think I've got a spare dovetail jig. If you're going to the Kamloops show, perhaps I can get it up to you as I was talking to a friend today who said he's going, as well as that box we discussed previously. You're obviously well set for latches so I'll keep my three sets! I'm not going to part with the stencils, but I do believe they might go through my scanner's feeder - I'll try. Keep plugging away there.

Looked at some No 7 transit boxes and the staples/posts are not recessed on these boxes, but in pictures the staples/posts for any sniper boxes are recessed. Will be ordering a 1 3/4 forstner bit to start recessing them, thanks for that Peter, it was a very good point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Rick, I think I've got a spare dovetail jig. If you're going to the Kamloops show, perhaps I can get it up to you as I was talking to a friend today who said he's going, as well as that box we discussed previously. You're obviously well set for latches so I'll keep my three sets! I'm not going to part with the stencils, but I do believe they might go through my scanner's feeder - I'll try. Keep plugging away there.

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Hi Surpmil, I will be PMing you, Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grant580

Yes, Peter, I think you are right about that. I have seen boxes with some recessed and some not. I think I will start recessing them from now on as it would look better.
When you don't recess the staples/posts you have to set the hasp 1/8 of an inch ahead, or past the front face of the lid. The reason for this is the back side of the hasp where the "keyhole" slot is has to fit flat against the round staple/post mounting disc so the hasp closes, or locks up tight. When I install the brass rivet I have to slightly countersink the rivet head with a forstner bit and this does not leave much room from the countersink to the face of the lid. Hope that make sense.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...TURES004-1.jpg

This picture shows closer detail of the brass rivet and if the backing plate for the staple/post was recessed the hasp would be set farther back and that rivet and countersink would also be set back 1/8 inch more from the face of the lid.

Thanks for that tip Peter, it's comments like yours that are helping my box builds to be closer to the originals than ever. Please keep the comments coming!

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The UK drawings for the chest DD(E)3063 show the staples surface mounted.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../DDE3063-1.jpg

Though no idea if the workshops had other ideas.

ATB Kevin

Now that's interesting Kevin, thanks for that info on the posts. I guess it seems that perhaps the British didn't recess the posts and possibly the Canadians did? Any chance of you sending me a copy of those British blueprints for the box? Would love to have drawings as good as that. The drawings I have used are the ones that were circulating on the net a while back and think they were re-drawn from originals and seem to leave a lot of the measurments to one's imagination.

The brass screws don't seem right to me. Brass rivets on the hasps yes, but not the screws. Wouldn't normal steel be more appropriate for an infantry, ie not near salt water, storage item?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple_Leaf_Eh

The brass screws don't seem right to me. Brass rivets on the hasps yes, but not the screws. Wouldn't normal steel be more appropriate for an infantry, ie not near salt water, storage item?

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That's a very good point Maple leaf eh and I thought about the decision to use brass or steel for a long time. When I get my hardware sets screws don't come with the sets because they are all rusted away. I didn't really want to use brass but had to use at least slotted screws to stay authentic. Have you ever tried to buy slotted steel screws?, they are a thing of the past since everyone came to their senses and started producing and using Robertson screws. I used to haunt antique shops snooping in old boxes and cans looking for slotted screws, found some, but not enough.

There is about a pound of screws in each box (not really that much, but 82 screws to be exact!) of four or five varing lengths and for me to find that variety of slotted screws to build each box and keep them all the same would be impossible. I chose brass because I can order every size under the sun from Lee Valley tools and they are solid, not plated, of good quaility and they never run out! I know the brass is not authentic, but you gotta admit they do go well with the green?

Didn't the British Navy keep Lanchester SMG's with brass magwells on their ships in WW 2?

Grant580 I have sent the drawings to Badger for his discretion on hosting them for download.
ATB Kevin

Crap now I have to re-fi the house because I need eight boxes.

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Originally Posted by MJ1

Crap now I have to re-fi the house because I need eight boxes.

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Eight boxes don't take up that much room, plus I have the hardware sets if you really have to have that many boxes!! Does your spouse know you have that many rifles laying around naked and in need of a home?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kev G

Grant580 I have sent the drawings to Badger for his discretion on hosting them for download.
ATB Kevin

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Here you go .... :thup:

Blueprints for Chest S.A. No.15 Mk1 (click here)

Regards,
Badger

Blueprints for Chest S.A. No.15 Mk1 - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

Thank you very much for the blueprints guys, they are awesome and are much appreciated.

great job! I'll have two thanks!

Same meat, different gravy but who was it was after L42 chest/chests? Or are there plenty around?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Same meat, different gravy but who was it was after L42 chest/chests? Or are there plenty around?

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Hi Peter

It was me who was after the blueprints for building the L 42 boxes, and no luck as of yet and still looking. I have had quite a few emails asking if I am building them as well as the Enfield sniper transit boxes so I assume there are not many around, at least in Canada or the US

grant580

Hi grant580,

You're doing a grand job on the No4 T chests! In reply to Peter Laidler, if there's not enough original L42 chests out there, then I've knocked up one or two new ones as per 'the Guru's' excellent book .... before the Company Storemen got hold of them!! here's a couple of pics!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...696690_b-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...acc9d3_b-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ec39e9_b-1.jpg

Dave

Mr Nobsdave,
Looks like you've done a fantastic job of work .
Paypal or Visa?
Thank you Sir,
Gordon

Mine is marked K ML 1943 C/|\ and a close friend and I just finished "FTR"ing it.

I was happy to find a 1943 dated one on account of my No4MkI*(T) is 1944 dated with the steel scope case( C No 8 MkI REL marked) and it's matching No32MkI REL scope.

You can see photos of my rifle in Clive Law's book.

Seems that one fellow KNOWS who K ML were, but he prefers NOT to share the knowledge with the rest of us.I am hot on the trail of a MINT 1945 dated HCF(Hill-Clark-Frances,of New Liskeard,Ontario) transit chest as I type this so rest assured that HE won't be getting a sniff should I decide to part with it.

Should ANYONE else hereabouts have any knowledge as to WHO K ML were .I and many others would LOVE to hear about it.Don't you just LOVE primadonnas ?

Cheers

JR

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nobsdave

Hi grant580,

You're doing a grand job on the No4 T chests! In reply to Peter Laidler, if there's not enough original L42 chests out there, then I've knocked up one or two new ones as per 'the Guru's' excellent book .... before the Company Storemen got hold of them!! here's a couple of pics!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...696690_b-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...acc9d3_b-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ec39e9_b-1.jpg

Dave

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Hi Nobsdave

Thank you for the kind words about my boxes, now that I have some decent plans thanks to our fellow milsurp friends, there are some "new and improved" versions of my transit boxes coming. There were so many unanswered questions and with those new plans I can come even closer to the originals. Will keep posting as many pictures as I can of my boxes in the future.
Now pardon me, and hope this isn't a stupid question, what does the term "knocked up one or two" mean?? Did you get these as surplus compliments of the UK govt? Seeing as you have two, I'll buy one!, I need one to make blueprints so I can start building these too.

grant580

Just re-read more of the excellent articles and misc. feed-back posted by various members on milsurp.com regarding the Canadian and British versions of the sniper transit boxes. I have a couple of different leather handles on the way in the mail to try and come up with one for my repro boxes that is closer to the originals.
What I can see from the photo essay comparing the British and Canadian leather handles is that they are made the same way using the "skived and folding" method, but the British handles must have been simply glued with some type of hide glue, whereas the Canadian versions may or may not have been glued, and def. stitched?? Can anyone verify this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John R.

Seems that one fellow KNOWS who K ML were, but he prefers NOT to share the knowledge with the rest of us.I am hot on the trail of a MINT 1945 dated HCF(Hill-Clark-Frances,of New Liskeard,Ontario) transit chest as I type this so rest assured that HE won't be getting a sniff should I decide to part with it.

Should ANYONE else hereabouts have any knowledge as to WHO K ML were .I and many others would LOVE to hear about it.Don't you just LOVE primadonnas ?

Cheers

JR

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Not unless they're female.:lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grant580

Just re-read more of the excellent articles and misc. feed-back posted by various members on milsurp.com regarding the Canadian and British versions of the sniper transit boxes. I have a couple of different leather handles on the way in the mail to try and come up with one for my repro boxes that is closer to the originals.
What I can see from the photo essay comparing the British and Canadian leather handles is that they are made the same way using the "veining and folding" method, but the British handles must have been simply glued with some type of hide glue, whereas the Canadian versions may or may not have been glued, and def. stitched?? Can anyone verify this?

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I can mail you a piece of a broken ORIGINAL leather carrying handle BUT you are honour bound to RETURN it.Our's seem to have been folded and perhaps pressed and then stitched down the centreline.I don't know about the glueing part though.

Drop me an e-mail to ROBERTSONYVR@TELUS.NET if you would like the original bit to look at.

Cheers,

JR

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John R.

I can mail you a piece of a broken ORIGINAL leather carrying handle BUT you are honour bound to RETURN it.Our's seem to have been folded and perhaps pressed and then stitched down the centreline.I don't know about the glueing part though.

Drop me an e-mail to ROBERTSONYVR@TELUS.NET if you would like the original bit to look at.

Cheers,

JR

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Hi John R

That would be great, I will return it, and you have my word! I will be emailing you in the AM to arrange, thank you so much. Not sure what I would do without all the help and support I have been getting from you guys.

John R,

I have been thinking about your above statement and in reference to the piece of handle. You say it is folded, pressed and then stitched down the "centerline". So far from my limited research I know that the British handles were not stitched and from the photos I have on file, the Canadian versions were always "double" stitched.

It would seem that now we have some kind of new version of leather handle, a handle that was only stitched in the middle? Anyone have a sniper transit box with a leather handle that is only stitched in the middle and is that box a British, or Canadian transit box?

Hi Grant580,

The term 'knocked up' is a local middle-England term meaning 'I've built these from scratch'... in effect that makes them a repro. Over recent years since the L42's were released by the MOD I've repaired a number of the chests to get them back to this condition for people who prefer the 'unissued' look. Then, people who hadn't got a chest asked if I could make them.... well the answer was yes. By a couple I mean that I have two at the moment but I have made considerably more.... and they are out there somewhere!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nobsdave

Hi Grant580,

The term 'knocked up' is a local middle-England term meaning 'I've built these from scratch'...

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And you did a magnificent job of it by the looks of that one.

I guess we'd better not ask where you got the hardware!?

What nobsdave hasn't told you is that he had the original drawings and access to the original spec and with it, details of the equipment suppliers who supplied the original manufacturers.

I hope that I haven't given away any secrets nobs........

On that basis, I suppose that you could say that they are as original is it is possible to get a repro.............. if that makes sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grant580

Just re-read more of the excellent articles and misc. feed-back posted by various members on milsurp.com regarding the Canadian and British versions of the sniper transit boxes. I have a couple of different leather handles on the way in the mail to try and come up with one for my repro boxes that is closer to the originals.
What I can see from the photo essay comparing the British and Canadian leather handles is that they are made the same way using the "skived and folding" method, but the British handles must have been simply glued with some type of hide glue, whereas the Canadian versions may or may not have been glued, and def. stitched?? Can anyone verify this?

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If you could use a section of British transit chest handle material, I finally found the loose bit off of one of mine. I've no use for it, you can keep it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nobsdave

Hi grant580,

You're doing a grand job on the No4 T chests! In reply to Peter Laidler, if there's not enough original L42 chests out there, then I've knocked up one or two new ones as per 'the Guru's' excellent book .... before the Company Storemen got hold of them!! here's a couple of pics!

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Hi Dave ... :)

Thanks for posting the pics ... :thup:

That is really outstanding work.... :bow:

Regards,
Badger

Just finished another transit box that I though you guys might like to see. this one has clear varnish interior. next ones on the go have the reddish varnish in the interior, will post pictures of them when they are done.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...XDONE047-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...XDONE044-1.jpg

AIA-L42 with case.

Grant, have you ever considered doing one with a perspex see-through front to it to have a No4T and CES visible while on show?

We have a Bren in a chest with a perspex front and it does attract a fair bit of attention from those hallowed Bren fiends

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Grant, have you ever considered doing one with a perspex see-through front to it to have a No4T and CES visible while on show?

We have a Bren in a chest with a perspex front and it does attract a fair bit of attention from those hallowed Bren fiends

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No Peter, I have not thought about that but think I could do it if anyone wanted one. Any chance you could post some pictures of that bren chest?

Now that last one is nice. Well done Grant.

...MJ...

Anyone else interested in a repro of the original lid label?

Are you marking these as reproductions? It might be something to consider.

Very nice work indeed, Grant. Keep up the great work.

What do you charge per box?

I have a BSA-Shirley No.4Mk1 .303 Brit Lee-Enfield (non-sniper) made in 1941 (base on rifle's serial number and pruduction figures of BSA-Shirley's plant.) that I would love to have a repro British Transit Box for. I'm not all that familiar with these transit cases. I've only seen the odd one on the internet; and in some slite detail in Ian Skennerton's book, "The Lee-Enfield Story."

You say you make your boxes out of pine. Weren't the originals (Canadian, British, Austrialian) made out of out of oak? I know oak would increase your building cost per box. I was just woundering why you used pine instead of a cheaper hardwood, like maple, beach or birch; other than for costing reasons?

One other question. What is normally carried in the non-sniper transit boxes other than the rifle itself? Does the box allow for extra magazines (If so, how many?), cleaning kit, bandoliers, charger clips, tools, muzzle and action covers and the P37 Webbing Rifle Case (called a Valise?)? Just to name a fefw things off my head.

Again, keep up the great work! Keep us posted with more up dates and pics as you progress with better made boxes.

I'd like to purchase one sometime in the near future, however, I'd like to more about them so I know what type I need to get.

Cheers!

Rgs...kajn65 (Keyan)

Great work indeed, I too would be interested in a British spec case for my No.4 T should you ever start making them:D

kajn65, none of my boxes are made of oak. Maybe someone else has one though. I have Canadian and British.

bearhunter, please PM me some detailed photos and cost per box. I'm looking for a reproduction tranist box (British) for the non-scoped No.4Mk1.

grant580, please do the same. For some reason I can't view your photos on this forum.

If you guys like, you could email me the info too. I'll PM you the contact info.

In reference to the use of oak. I was just woundering why any of you haven't used oak (or any other hardwoods-beech, birch, maple-for that matter) in making your reproduction transit boxes. Is it due to the cost of and the weight of the material used for manufacturing and shipping?

Our Senior NCO I/C of our WW2 Re-Enactment Unit has a reproduction tranist box for his No.5 Jungle Carbine that is varnished over (inside and outside) after it was stencelled with black paint. It looked really good on display.

Keep up the great work. Every rifle should have a transit box with it, original or reproduction. It looks naked without one.

Thanks!

Rgs...kajn65

As a matter of interest, I never saw an individual 'official' transit chest for a No5 but did see hundreds of the (was it ?) 10x No5 rifle chests as they came through our huge Base Workshops. What does it look like? Or is it a made-up variant

Hi Peter,

His is a pine reproduction. It was made by a fellow WW2 Re-Enactor (1st CanPara) in his first Re-Enactment Unit out in Northern B.C.

It was origanally built for either his 1940 No.1MkIII or his No.4; I'm not sure which one. However, when it was completed, it was found to be too short for the inetended rifle. It was later found to fit his No.5 Jungle Carbine perfectly so that what he uses it for when it is on display. It was very well made I might add.

I'll do what I can to get some pictures for you. I'm not all that skilled with the digital cameras yet; and the know how to down load them to a computer and all. That's my 19 year-old son's job. Now put a regular 35mm SLR camera in my hands and Bob's your Uncle. Gotta love this new high tech stuff, eh? Lol! I'm trying to learn though, honest!

After seeing his Transit Case and the ones that I can see on this thread, I now want on for my BSA-Shirley No.4Mk1. I'd like to have a British one of course to match my rifle. I know the reproduction ones are tad bit expensive, especially after shipping. They're far cheeper than the originals when and if you can get your hands one in near perfect shape. Either one is well worth the investment if you ask me.

I wouldn't mind having an original .303 Brit Ammo Box (either a Canadian or British one) too. I thought I had a WW2 dated one (British-painted a brown colour) in mint shape. I found out it was 1954 dated (stamped in part of the handle base attached to the side of the box). It would be great for someone who is into collecting Korean War stuff though. Any ideas where a guy could find a mint WW2 .303 Brit Ammo box; or, even get a hand on a good reproduction one?

Rgs...kajn65

Thanks for that Kajn. I was just bamboozled that a single No5 rifle box existed! But you've answered the question - that it was a made-up example! As I said, we overhauled thousands of No5's and while they came in and went out in the 10 rifle boxes, I never saw a 1x rifle box.

Regards, from warm and sunny England

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kajn65

bearhunter, please PM me some detailed photos and cost per box. I'm looking for a reproduction tranist box (British) for the non-scoped No.4Mk1.

grant580, please do the same. For some reason I can't view your photos on this forum.

If you guys like, you could email me the info too. I'll PM you the contact info.

In reference to the use of oak. I was just woundering why any of you haven't used oak (or any other hardwoods-beech, birch, maple-for that matter) in making your reproduction transit boxes. Is it due to the cost of and the weight of the material used for manufacturing and shipping?

Our Senior NCO I/C of our WW2 Re-Enactment Unit has a reproduction tranist box for his No.5 Jungle Carbine that is varnished over (inside and outside) after it was stencelled with black paint. It looked really good on display.

Keep up the great work. Every rifle should have a transit box with it, original or reproduction. It looks naked without one.

Thanks!

Rgs...kajn65

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All my boxes are made of pine lumber because of the fact that all the originals were made of pine. I have never seen or made one from anything but pine so far. The oak in my part of the country would be very expensive to use.

grant580

I'm new here...prompted to join by having problems finding a No15 Transit Chest! This thread is great!

Grant, I'd also be really interested to learn if you ever consider making a British version.

Just had someone in the UK try to charge me a ridiculous amount of money for an original!

Andy, just get the dimensions, take a few photos, get the wood sawn to size by a timber merchants, find yourself a good jobbing chippie and you're 90% of the way there.

What could be simpler, especially if you live in Oxford UK!

Just shipped off my first British version of the transit box, thought the members might like to see it.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...LSURP002-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...LSURP021-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...LSURP017-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...LSURP004-1.jpg

I also want to thank all the members who have sent me the many recent compliments on my boxes, glad to see so many enjoying this thread!
I recently aquired an L 42 box and will make a blueprint of it and hopefully start building these over the winter months. I am still looking for a source for the hardware needed to build the L 42 boxes, anyone have any leads? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Have you used the Canadian hardware? Does it differ much/at all from the British hardware?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbonesmith

Have you used the Canadian hardware? Does it differ much/at all from the British hardware?

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The difference between British hardware and Canadian is that the British hardware has three screw holes in the hinges (six total) where as the Canadian versions have four screw holes (eight total) All my hardware is Canadian but have to put them on the British boxes anyway because thats all I have.
I could have the holes welded shut and re-drilled to the three hole pattern If I had to. Would be willing to trade someone some four hole hinges for the British ones if anyone has some to spare.

Hi,

The chest is looking great!!

You only used Canadian hinges and you stencil is telling me its an British made rifle inside.....huh?????

But again, an very well made repro!!

CU Harry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grant580

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...TDONE011-1.jpg

The last picture shows the detail of the hasp being held in place with a brass rivet and you can see the C broad arrow stamp I put on the lid. I had this C broad arrow stamp made up by a Croatian Master Engraver out West. You can also see that about the last two inches of the lid has a "T" shaped joint in it that holds a piece of wood measuring 2 inches by 5 inches with the grain going the other way to prevent warping.

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I believe the Canadian no15 chests had metal re-enforcing around the ends of the lid. At least the two I picked up did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 303sniper

Hi,

The chest is looking great!!

You only used Canadian hinges and you stencil is telling me its an British made rifle inside.....huh?????

But again, an very well made repro!!

CU Harry

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Thank you for the compliments 303sniper! The reason of course for making the British stencilled chest is because that's what the customer wanted and unfortunatley I only have the Canadian version of the hinges. I explained that I only have the four hole hinges, but he said go ahead anyway and make it British old boy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stencollector

I believe the Canadian no15 chests had metal re-enforcing around the ends of the lid. At least the two I picked up did.

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Hello Stencollector! Now that's interesting, have not seen any evidence of that so far and the fact that you have two with the metal re-enforcing on them indicates it may have been standard on some, or perhaps all the Canadian chests?
Would love to see a picture of that metal re-enforcement and general pictures of those chests, any chance you could post that for us??

One thing I have noticed about my research into these boxes is that there are many variations regarding interior colours, stencilling etc, I have also been trying to research some of the original Canadian manufacturers of these boxes and from what I understand there were four manufacturers of these transit boxes during the war and one out West here somewhere. Anyone have information on that they could share with us?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hets0002-1.jpg

Here is a shot from the day I brought them home. You can just make out the edge on the top box. I'll get some closeups when I get out to the shop later today. The lower box went to John R; I still have the upper box.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hets0009-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stencollector

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hets0002-1.jpg

Here is a shot from the day I brought them home. You can just make out the edge on the top box. I'll get some closeups when I get out to the shop later today. The lower box went to John R; I still have the upper box.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hets0009-1.jpg

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Yep, I can make out the metal corner, funny I never noticed that before as I have those very pictures in my files and looked at them many times while doing my research on the transit boxes. Looking forward to the close ups.

I assume that box in the picture has four screw holes in the hinges?, and are the leather handles sewn? It sure seems there is quite a variety of styles when it comes to these transit boxes??, sure glad to have you on board with this thread Stencollector!

Considering the variety of Canadian transit boxes that are turning up, would it be possible to start a spot on this sight for everyone who owns a Canadian made transit box to send in a picture of their box so we an see all the different variations of boxes?

Don't forget that manufacturers were granted what we call 'relaxation in standards or specification' for several reasons. One that I recall was ' ....in order to make best use of the or their resources at hand' and Canadian Bren chests were a classic example. Onother was a dissimilar cast for the telescope brackets and another the material spec for a certain type of bolt. Another was a different shank thickness for the Bren Mk2 pistol grip bolt. I could go on, There were pages and pages of them in the Base workshop EMER's.

And when the kit is in service, itis repaired to the best it can be '.....in the circumstances'

Leather handles last about 10 minutes in the Far East so they'd be replaced with rot proof (?) webbing or even rope. If you see a green coloured rifle of Bren pullthroughs, there's another spec change as they are rot proofed for Malaya.

So don' forget the MANY changes over just a few years..............

Here are some shots of the Cdn chest. The light out in the shed isn't the best, so take the colors with a grain of salt. The interior is the purple primer. The same primer was used on the outside of the box before it was given its coat of olive.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hest0010-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hest0009-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hest0007-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hest0006-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hest0011-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stencollector

Here are some shots of the Cdn chest. The light out in the shed isn't the best, so take the colors with a grain of salt. The interior is the purple primer. The same primer was used on the outside of the box before it was given its coat of olive.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hest0010-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hest0009-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hest0007-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hest0006-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hest0011-1.jpg

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Those are excellent shots of the chest and I noticed that the end on the lid does not have the piece installed cross ways to prevent warping and checking as is called for in the British version of the plans. I wonder if this lid was damaged while in use somewhere and replaced in the field with what ever was available and the metal corners were installed due to lack of the cross ways piece of wood on the ends?

Would you say that the majority of Canadian transit boxes all had that purplish interior Stencollector?

I do not believe the lid is a replacement. Everything matches.

I can only speak for the two boxes I picked up; both had the purple primer. Check with Cantom or Superbee over on CGN; they both have Cdn chests as I understand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stencollector

I do not believe the lid is a replacement. Everything matches.

I can only speak for the two boxes I picked up; both had the purple primer. Check with Cantom or Superbee over on CGN; they both have Cdn chests as I understand.

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I will check with Cantom and Superbee asap.

From what I understand Stencollector is that there were four manufacturers of the transit boxes here in Canada during the war?, Any idea, or indication where yours was made? Have you any information on the various manufacturers? I would be greatly interested in finding out who the boxes were made by and where.

Anyone else have any pictures of Canadian made transit boxes?

I am also intrested in building a transit box for my No4T. I found the blueprints in the forum, but does anybody have them in a better quality scanned in one part? It will be much easier to work with a good print.

Thanks
Frank

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank LE

I am also intrested in building a transit box for my No4T. I found the blueprints in the forum, but does anybody have them in a better quality scanned in one part? It will be much easier to work with a good print.

Thanks
Frank

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They are a very hard set of prints to build from but it can be done and chances are those prints are as good as it may ever get.
I have attached a couple of pictures of a recent box I finished and sent off to the UK.

Wonderful work :thup:
Can this also be shipped to Austria?
Talking about price, can you give me an info with a PM

Thanks
Frank

I spliced them together in autcad and made a PDF of them...I can plot you a arch D size set and ship em outmto youmif you want...or email u the file.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank LE

Wonderful work :thup:
Can this also be shipped to Austria?
Talking about price, can you give me an info with a PM

Thanks
Frank

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Frank

The box grant580 posted is heading my way.....can't wait! I have to say it has been a real pleasure to work with him on this project and he offers a very personal service. He is always open to suggestions and discussions on specific aspects/details to try to get as authentic a result as possible. Highly recommended!

Andy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Leather handles last about 10 minutes in the Far East so they'd be replaced with rot proof (?) webbing or even rope.
So don' forget the MANY changes over just a few years..............

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Here's an example of what Peter mentioned on a British chest. The handles were replaced with sections of a Machine gun belt. Ray

Attachment 19362Attachment 19361Attachment 19360

Would anyone be interested in the SA Chest drawings Badger posted in PDF format redrawn into a single drawing? I'm redrawing it for my own use, but if anyone else is interested I'd be happy to share them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rayg

Here's an example of what Peter mentioned on a British chest. The handles were replaced with sections of a Machine gun belt. Ray

Attachment 19362Attachment 19361Attachment 19360

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That's being even more economical than the Canadian C7 chests which had pieces of rifle sling for handles.

My British version Transit Chest from grant580 arrived yesterday - so I wanted to share these images with you to try to show you some of the quality of Rick's work. Hopefully the large pics will give you a good view.

I believe this chest was the first that Rick had made using his new dovetailing machine - it worked a treat. The overall quality and attention to detail of this repro is stunning. Hopefully the pics convey a little of that? Through the wholeprocess Rick has been an absolute diamond to deal with. We discussed issues, options, and solutions to try to get an accurate copy of the British chest - down to reworking the hinges to the three screw variety.

And the box was packed amazingly to protect it during it's sea trip. It arrived in immaculate condition.

I had originally considered using the online blueprints and either having a go myself. An idea quickly shelved as I have neither the space/equipment nor the skills necessary - my last woodwork lesson was aged 11 (nearly 39 years ago!!). I also considered having a local chippy run one up as suggested by PL....but I don't think I'd have been able to find the necessary components or someone passioante enough about the subject to do an acceptable job.

Finding Rick on the forum was te PERFECT solution.

Although I had seen Rick's initial pics before shipping, the end product surpassed my highest expectations (and I'm a pretty demanding bloke!). I cannot recommend Rick's work highly enough!

Thanks Rick!

Beautiful job! Very impressed...

Impressed........................ Just as remember seeing them stacked on the armoury shelves

Thanks again for the kind comments about my transit chest Andy and Peter, is it much appreciated! I am still "plugging" away here in Western Canada and will be building more as time permits. The next ones will be more Canadian versions, mostly because all my hinge sets are the four hole per leaf type.

I looked into getting a batch of the three hole British type hinges custom made by a hinge manufacturer in the U.S., but unless I get 250 or 500 made it is not worth one's while to have them made.

By the way, while searching for British hinges and various screws for my boxes I came a across a fellow in the U.S. who specalizes in strange and hard to find hardware, nuts and bolts etc,,. His website is http://www.blacksmithbolt.com and he sells the hard to find screws to fasten the lid hasps and posts to the boxes. His name is Dick Naven and he has bent over backwards to help me find those screws and is highly recommended in case anyone is interested.

Wonderful work!!! :thup::cheers:
Please inform me when the next british chests are made.

Cheers from Austria

I have one of Rick's transit chests as well and it is top notch.

If anyone in the UK is thinking of making one, then consider making it from the old Army folding tables, known to us as 'TABLES, GS. Folding, 6'. These tables are available from ex WD surplus in good used and often tatty condition but the wood is what I think they call pitch pine and identical to the real thing. I expect Skippy and Tanky have written a few off in their time in order to make life in the back of the Bedford machinery or Armourers truck a little easier

Hi Grant580,

Long time no speak! How is everything is the lovely west coast of B.C.? Are you still giving your tours at the mine?

Very, very, very nice work on your British No.4 Mk1(T) Transit Box for OxfordAndy (Rick). Now I'm jealous that I don't have one for my BSA-Shirley No.4 Mk1 Lee-Enfield. I guess I'm going to have to got to the bank and apply for a loan to get myself put down on your order list for one, lol.

What was your total man-hours, from start to finsh, for that transit chest for Rick (OxfordAndy)?

Beautiful work I must say. Far better than some of the museum reproductions that I've seen over the years over here in the Maritimes. Like Rick said ... here is one craftsman who loves his work.

Your Transit Chests are more like "Rebuilds" than "Reproductions", as you are using most of or either all of the metal furnature that came off the originals.

Do your chests also allow room for misc. equipment (bayonets, cleaning kits, rifle slings, spare magazines, bandolears, WW2 boxed ammo, rifle valise or case, etc.)? Can the rifle fit into these chests with their action and/or muzzle covers installed on the rifle? It would be nice to know.

I'll definately be ordering one in the future for my British No. 4 Lee-Enfield.

Keep up the excellent work!

Cheers!

Rgs...Keyan (kajn65)

P.S.-How was your trip back home to Cape Breton Island this past summer?

Thanks for the nice comments kajn65, it is very much appreicated. I will try and answer some of your questions.

First the fellow who's forum name is oxfordandy is Andy, not Rick. He too was a pleasure to work with and very patient and actually helped me with many things regarding the boxes. Part of his "tip" for building his box was a very generous donation of a set of British font brass stencils that would have otherwise been hard to find here in Canada. Those kind of stencils are hard to use though, because the paint always seems to work it's way under them but someday when I get more time I am going to try and figure out how to prevent that.

As far as the contents of the box goes, you have probably seen the contents list I apply to the inside of the lid? I assume of course that that equipment was standard issue when given to the snipers but I bet each individual sniper perhaps had a few extra items or maybe when the scout regiment spotting scopes were not available for what ever reason they had binoculars instead, things like that.

One thing I always wondered about is during the war the sniper was issued the box and it's contents, what would happen to the box itself once he was on a misson, or in battle? Did it get carried around in a lorrie with the unit, or kept with the armourers or what? Maybe some of the senior collectors might be able to answer that one?

As far as the hours go, I never actually kept track but I think one box from start to finish would be at least 25 to 30 hours, maybe more depending on how much stencilling I do. They are very labour intensive with all the hand work involved like cutting and tacking down the felt, cutting all the interior parts, sand blasting and painting the six pieces of hardware and applying the finish etc. Plus when I am done I have to spend about 2 hours properly packing it up for shipment. I guess this is what they call a "labour of love"? My total material cost is roughly $100 for each box so I guess if the $400 price seems like a lot, it's not.

PM me when ready to order.

RG