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Hi Everyone
The other day i opened a wooden box containing 100 bren mags re-packed in the 50's that was from Oz. In it there were quite a few with stenciled and hand painted markings. Eg; E-coy 15Btn, 15N.S.D, 15N.S-T & 15N.S-C. All the mags are different makers, which leads me on to my point, does anybody know if the aussies made a standard .303 12rnd mag box. I don't think i have ever seen one.
Why would they want to?
If you are training & doing I.A Drill's. (Imeadiate Action) & load/ unloading Drills as well as live firing in service. You WOULD need dry training to be as near to live firing as possible.
So.......Troops would use 'Normal' 30 rounders. If you want less drill rounds in a 30 round mag. You only put in what you need. Simple!
WHY on earth would the Military go to the trouble & unessacary expense. Of getting a different type of mag in?....
Of course, if YOU needed a 10 round mag. It would be a simple job to cut one down, & modify it. :)
Just my 2cents worth of being a Military Armourer. :madsmile:
I think he's asking in a looooong winded way whether Aust made standard 12 mag magazine BOXES as opposed to 12 round MAGAZINES. Like you say, no point whatever for having 12 round magazines. BUT.........
Off the subject a bit, but there was a means of modifying Bren magazines to take 10 (?) rounds for Cadet Training Teams. But whether this was just some tacit/accepted agreement or authorised somewhere I can't say although I never saw an instruction although I did see a load of the 10 round converted magazines that were identified as 'STOPPED'
Thanks peter.
Meant 12mags per box.
Still getting through the remains of the old interarms lot of boxes that they imported from belgium. I have never seen a Aussie made 12mag steel box in all the years of sorting through the batch we have, or seen any at shows.
Pete, well done for clarifying. :cheers:
I'm sure I have a photo of mag boxes either being made or Refurbed in Australia. If I remember correctly it was on the Australian War Memorial.
I know that in Australia we definately had Bren/L4 mag boxes because we used them as general range boxes and converted them to take the L4 mags although as I recall, the internal wood fittings were different for some reason
Ooooops, forgot to say but line one amended to be clearer
Britplumber
Any chance you may have photos of Aussie makers marks that were applied to the tins in that collection of images.
Cheers.
I don't think it's too hard to work out the OP's typo as his question was in regards to magazine boxes NOT box magazines but an interesting question.
I always ment to have a look at a stash of Aussie L2A1 magazine boxes to see if they were ex UK 303 conversions or UK L4 boxes or Aussie made.....anyone got one that they can look at ?
ATB KG
To be fair KG, I'm reasonably well versed in Bren matters and I was a bit flummoxed* about what was being asked and wondered whether he'd seen some modified 10 rounders!
* FLUMMOXED. = Army technical phrase used by REME Officers this time, instead of the usual shop floor phrase '.....what the fxxx is he on about.....' usually heard in REME workshops when a low baller is thrown.
........I'm more familiar with the latter :-)
I expect it might have been the welding fumes that was his undoing regarding the typo !
Anyway it will be interesting if anyone can shed any light on the matter.
Would this be the item being discussed?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/002_1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/004_1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5/03/007-1.jpg
Yep, that's the one! But the flock are interested to see/hear of an Oz made version.
On a purely practical note I would bet my last penny that there were Oz made versions. Can you just imagine the shipping/freight sending 10,000 boxes full of fresh air over to Oz through u-boat infested oceans. Nope....., nor can I!
I agree about the point of sending mag boxes to oz, logic says the must have made them in oz but like I said before I have never seen one and would like to see some photos of some so I know what to look out for. I know that when all the bren and vickers stuff landed in the U.K. back in the early 90's from Oz there did not seem to be any 12 MAG Bren boxes. All the magazines were re-packed in different quantities from about 100 mags per wooden box to boxes that contained 500. There was also a nice stack of brand new tropic pack wooden boxes containing mags made by ELECTROLUX, but i digress.
Right about the welding fumes Kev! :madsmile:
Whilst I cannot find a maker or ownership mark anywhere on the box, I assumed it was an Aussie box simply due to the fact it resides here in the land of Oz.
As stated earlier, it would be fairly pointless shipping a heap of boxes halfway around the globe when they could be knocked together without much effort or sophisticated tooling here.
Edit to add; found the number 796 below a tiny broad arrow on the carry handle.
I will have a look at mine when I get a chance.. I have never counted the number.. always thought it was 10 mags actually... means i have more than i thought :-)
Big thank you LITHY for the pics. Can you get a close up of the 796 number with the broad arrow at all?
SCRIVO18 I would appreciate if you could look on yours to see what markings the mag box has on it.
I need to find three aussie boxes to put these e-coy 15Btn marked mags and N.S.D. marked mags into and add to my collection.:thup:
Thinking on my feet, I wonder if the original Bren mag boxes in Aust service were converted to 7.62mm spec and retained for use with the L4's and the L2 rifles.
Remembered now why the modification was slightly different in Oz. The UK L4 mags were slightly curved but the Oz L4/L2 rifle mags were straighter. Seem to be as reliable as each other although we'd occasionally see curved pommy magazines
Like our CDN mags, which were straight profile. The UK mags had the slight arcuate profile.
Attachment 61331Attachment 61330
So, what does a painted marking of 'FGK' on the front of such a mag box, above the normal box nomenclature, mean??
-TomH
Sorry I'm late in replying but I'm away on holiday with a wifi connection that may as well be on the other side of the world. When I get home I'll have a look at the mag boxes that I have from Australia and the L2mag box I have too. I'll also try and find the photo of the guys who were making or refurbing the boxes although there is no way to see makers marks.
Attachment 61462
I've had a cursory look at my boxes and I found the L2 box is a FGK made box. The stampings are identical to Toms and under the new paint work are the original Bren stencils and there too is a FGK stencil. So is FGK Australian, that is the question?
....so what I find funny as Hell is that whomever re-painted these 'FGK' marked boxes thought it important to paint anew the 'FGK' STAMPING, which I figure is actually a makers' mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit plumber
Ideas??
-TomH
Q for BP. Is that L2 mag box just one of the converted Bren mag boxes - as we converted our Bren boxes for L4 mags? As I said, we did a load of them for |straight L2 magazines
In answer to BP's thread 27...... Yep, that just how we did loads of them. We converted them and the painters shop spray painted them according to the instructions
From memory and this is going back to late 1980's early 1990's the last issue Australian Bren I had the Privilege of being issued came with a 10 mag box made by Lysaght and the mags were straight as per the L2A1 probably those anyway. Why ten to a box, because the Q Creatures would have had to have taken a boot and sock off to count the extra 2 mags if they were issued in 12 Mag boxes :lol:
Dick
Don't ever recall seeing or using a 10 mag box......
Yep, the box is a converted Bren mag box, under the new paint and stencils are the original Bren stencils. The original finish must have remained perfect as the new coat is also perfect. I would expect a new top coat on original chipped paint to look a mess.
Oh and it's a 12 mag box as per Bren.
Just had a look through my boxes.This one is a MKI and isn't stamped FGK but stenciled F.G.K & Co Ltd.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...xwjggax3-1.jpg
With the latch lifted there is an inspection mark underneath the keep riveted to the box front.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...snhwqjub-1.jpg
No markings on the handle or anywhere else I can see.
UK manufacture ?
ATB KG
Your quite right Peter they were 12 magazine boxes my Q mate informed me today we were only issued 10 per box as we couldn't count past 10 without taking a boot off. Here are some photos he sent me of the Australian Bren and L2A1 Magazine Boxes
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...zxmc83sc-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cln89tfn-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bzotjzcj-1.jpg
Kev sayeth:
"With the latch lifted there is an inspection mark underneath the keep riveted to the box front."
Well, with THAT, I'm going to go pop the latch on mine and have a look. Picture to follow.....
-TomH
I have 3 L2A1 30 round magazine (straight) twelve magazine boxes. All are conversions of original .303 in. boxes.
Marked:
1. E.C & Co. LTD
2. M C
3. FGK (stamped) this is the box shown in the third photo of post #29. It has the original .303 box markings under the green paint.
Electrolux Corp of Aust (?) Monotype; as in MC marked on Bren parts (?) Frightfully Good Kit !
Thanks to everybody for the responses and photo's. Looks like i am getting closer to finding a aussie .303 12MAG box. There is no listing of FGK in skennertons british makers identification list. The closest one on the list is S328 Frazer&Glass Ltd, so it looks likely to be FGK is either canadian or aussie. A hunch says the inspectors crown S mark is aussie. Anyway the good news is if FGK turns out to be aussie i have seen them on the show scene and i won't be looking for anything resembling hens teeth or rocking horse droppings. Thanks again to everybody.keep it coming in!