Building a No.4 Mk1 T clone, mk.1* or no *?

I'm in the preliminary stages of building a mk1T and need a little info.

If this subject has been covered please let me know where to find it.

I want this rifle to be as "correct" as possible so, is it more correct to use a No.4mk1 or a No.4mk1* action?
Or does it depend on what MK scope I get?
Or does it just not matter at all?

Before anyone panics, I am NOT ruining anything original or collectable. I have a lead on both models with cut down, shot out barrels and a new barrel on the way for the build. I'm debating between a 1943 Longbranch no.4mk1* or a faintly marked No.4mk1.

I am just looking for authenticity.... as authentic as possible less the new barrel of course....

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Originally Posted by jonh172

I want this rifle to be as "correct" as possible so, is it more correct to use a No.4mk1 or a No.4mk1* action?

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Either one would be correct. Most? of the Savage and Long Branch conversions were Mk.1*'s.

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

Either one would be correct. Most? of the Savage and Long Branch conversions were Mk.1*'s.

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Thank you for the quick reply!

Now, which would be less of a shame to drill the holes in?

Guess it goes on who built the weapon originally

By far, the majority of 4T's were BSA Mk1's (no *)
Very few Savage were used and the majority of those supplied for conversion never actually made it to full 4T status, ending up as "scopeless 4T" and stored away.

Peter Laidlers book will give you 'chapter & verse' on the 'why' and how many of each type were manufactured.

Were any Fazakerley's converted?

Fazakerley......... er....., yes and no! Not according to the official records go - if there is such a thing - but it would appear from samples shown on this site that some early Fazakerley ASSEMBLED rifles using Enfield parts might have been converted at Enfield. Same goes for very early Maltby No4's. However, these rifles were a bit of a nightmare and could only be converted as individual rifles due to tolerancing issues

But once BSA got into full swing their production and tolerances were constant so H&H could production-line the whole conversion process

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

By far, the majority of 4T's were BSA Mk1's (no *)
Very few Savage were used and the majority of those supplied for conversion never actually made it to full 4T status, ending up as "scopeless 4T" and stored away.

Peter Laidlers book will give you 'chapter & verse' on the 'why' and how many of each type were manufactured.

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Excellent thank you! I'll snag the no *.

Personally, I would not use a respectable as-issued rifle for such a project. I do have a rifle that would be ideal for the purpose. Bought a stripped receiver from Numrich, years ago. '42 Long Branch. Assembled a rifle using decent parts, as they presented themselves. Nice looking rifle, good shooter. Haven't obtained the scope and mount to finish the project.

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Originally Posted by tiriaq

Personally, I would not use a respectable as-issued rifle for such a project. I do have a rifle that would be ideal for the purpose. Bought a stripped receiver from Numrich, years ago. '42 Long Branch. Assembled a rifle using decent parts, as they presented themselves. Nice looking rifle, good shooter. Haven't obtained the scope and mount to finish the project.

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I stated in my first post that I am not, I'm buying a sportered, cut down shot out barreled action.

I'd use a Mk2 action if you can get one. Stronger design, better QC than most and probably better steels. And of course, trigger mounted on the receiver rather than the guard.

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

I'd use a Mk2 action if you can get one. Stronger design, better QC than most and probably better steels. And of course, trigger mounted on the receiver rather than the guard.

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I originally wanted to for those very reasons and i have a beauty Savage mk1/3 in like new condition, but am reluctant to drill it.

I also want to stick with the original action if possible to keep it as 'authentic ' as I can.

Well, use a Mk1/2 action then. Plentiful and some Mk1T's were converted during the Fazakerley FTR era. Not many but some were drawn-in for conversion to L42 but rejected as they were not the standard norm specified for the L42 project.

Mind you there were plenty of all mk/types converted at Ishapore. So when it comes to choice the world is your oyster. And as you say, it's just a good repro and not a fake as such

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Well, use a Mk1/2 action then. Plentiful and some Mk1T's were converted during the Fazakerley FTR era. Not many but some were drawn-in for conversion to L42 but rejected as they were not the standard norm specified for the L42 project.

Mind you there were plenty of all mk/types converted at Ishapore. So when it comes to choice the world is your oyster. And as you say, it's just a good repro and not a fake as such

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Thanks Peter!

I think I may have found a Longbranch mk1/3 that's already been drilled, so this may be the ticket.

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Originally Posted by jonh172

I also want to stick with the original action if possible to keep it as 'authentic ' as I can.

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The problem with the word "Authentic" it can lead to an expensive build if not careful and sometimes not much cheaper than the real deal unless your doing all the work ? also depends on what scope you have in mind ?

I,m in the same boat regarding a build of a K98 Sniper, I,ve gathered the bits together missing an action at present and scope mount, trouble is, I was going to build it with a swept back mount as I,ve a rebuilt Zf4 scope but really like the SSR mount plus have a scope that will do also, then I,ll need a bayonet and you can't just have one bayonet .............

Basically killing two birds with one stone as I'd like a Sniper and need a K98 to display and use a .22 conversion kit.

Like yourself I won't alter a perfectly good Milsurp, For any type of builds I'll use an old target rifle or sporter, with the target rifle you tend to get more recyclable parts, the barrel can be traded, turn a new profile and used on the same type of action or rethreaded and chambered to anything with a 7.62mm/.308 Dia bullet .... which will handle the twist.

The wood on a target rifle can be fairly "Chunky" and really nice walnut, comes in handy for repairs, bayonet grips etc or even punt it on ebay if its beech....

As its a Mauser I,m doing and as there was so many variations until it become more standard then regards to Authentic I,ve got it easy (depending on scope choice), a No4T is not so easy ......

The main thing is have a budget in mind and stick to it, at the end of the day it is what it is, a clone, repro, replica.... and thats all it will ever be, but saying that I've seen a few cloned K98 snipers go through the auction and demand a high premium so I may be in with a profit some day :lol:

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

The problem with the word "Authentic" it can lead to an expensive build if not careful and sometimes not much cheaper than the real deal unless your doing all the work ? also depends on what scope you have in mind ?

I,m in the same boat regarding a build of a K98 Sniper, I,ve gathered the bits together missing an action at present and scope mount, trouble is, I was going to build it with a swept back mount as I,ve a rebuilt Zf4 scope but really like the SSR mount plus have a scope that will do also, then I,ll need a bayonet and you can't just have one bayonet .............

Basically killing two birds with one stone as I'd like a Sniper and need a K98 to display and use a .22 conversion kit.

Like yourself I won't alter a perfectly good Milsurp, For any type of builds I'll use an old target rifle or sporter, with the target rifle you tend to get more recyclable parts, the barrel can be traded, turn a new profile and used on the same type of action or rethreaded and chambered to anything with a 7.62mm/.308 Dia bullet .... which will handle the twist.

The wood on a target rifle can be fairly "Chunky" and really nice walnut, comes in handy for repairs, bayonet grips etc or even punt it on ebay if its beech....

As its a Mauser I,m doing and as there was so many variations until it become more standard then regards to Authentic I,ve got it easy (depending on scope choice), a No4T is not so easy ......

The main thing is have a budget in mind and stick to it, at the end of the day it is what it is, a clone, repro, replica.... and thats all it will ever be, but saying that I've seen a few cloned K98 snipers go through the auction and demand a high premium so I may be in with a profit some day :lol:

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I actually just went through a Mauser SSR build myself, you can find it in the Mauser section of this forum.
So, I know exactly what you mean!
I have no illusions that this will be a cheap and easy build, the scope and mount I'm looking at are going to run me over 2000 USD alone!!!
I bought a new manufactured barrel and am searching for everything else to attach to it.
I know it will never be an original, but it will be exactly what I'm striving for, an as close to original shooter that should keep me around the $3000 mark, which is 1/3 what an original that I wouldn't want to shoot would cost.
Added bonus, it'll be one that I built myself as I do plan to do all the work on it.

Seen your Mauser build, looks impressive, just remember the set up for a 4T is not as straight forward as the Mauser and no room for error, read Peters article in the Knowledge Library, it gives you all you need.

Personally I would of built one in 7.62mm..... more for the ease of surplus ammo and components if reloading. If it wasn't for my .22 conversion kit I wouldn't hesitate to do my Muser in 7.62mm.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Seen your Mauser build, looks impressive, just remember the set up for a 4T is not as straight forward as the Mauser and no room for error, read Peters article in the Knowledge Library, it gives you all you need.

Personally I would of built one in 7.62mm..... more for the ease of surplus ammo and components if reloading. If it wasn't for my .22 conversion kit I wouldn't hesitate to do my Muser in 7.62mm.

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Peters articles have been my Bible for the last few weeks, they are excellent and we are lucky to have a member like him to help us out!!

Keeping with the 'authentic' theme, 303 is my first choice, some day I may do another in 7.62 to accompany my mauser SSR but I reload for all my rifles so I'm not concerned with availability of surplus ammo.