Enfield No5 Trials

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10-01-2018, 10:33 AM
capt14k

Enfield No5 Trials

I think I managed to score a special rifle. Based on the little research I found it looks to be a Lee Enfield No5 D5E 171/X/8 grenade trials rifle which was to be the No5 MkII? Seems last year Poulins had one in their auction from the estate of Bob Faris with an estimated price of $5,500-$7,500. Can anyone confirm this is what I have and if so is the value really that high? The condition is great. Bore is shiny and bright. Matching band, stock, and bolt. Many parts are M47 marked. There is no import mark that I can find.

Below is a link to the Poulin listing. Says there it was passed.

BRITISH NO. 5 GRENADE TRIALS BOLT ACTION RIFLE.

However proxibid link shows sold $3,750

https://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog...asp?aid=133433

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...057988e7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8ae4cfa9-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...565f3b42-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e602ff80-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e4635651-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...79474a27-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...af084d26-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2d766f3e-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5f73a3f3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6a6b9254-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5d3c9a81-1.jpg
10-01-2018, 10:37 AM
browningautorifle

What a nice looking rifle...
10-01-2018, 11:01 AM
capt14k

Quote:

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

What a nice looking rifle...

Thank you. Do you know if I am correct in everything I wrote? How many were made? Any idea of value?
10-01-2018, 11:04 AM
browningautorifle

I have no idea how many were made. I just am aware that trials rifles didn't fare well as they were usually tested to destruction. The crossbolt in the draws is an interesting addition. Very thick through there too. Someone will be through shortly that can tell you EXACTLY how many and apparently the value is $3,750 USD...
10-01-2018, 11:12 AM
capt14k

Quote:

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I have no idea how many were made. I just am aware that trials rifles didn't fare well as they were usually tested to destruction. The crossbolt in the draws is an interesting addition. Very thick through there too. Someone will be through shortly that can tell you EXACTLY how many and apparently the value is $3,750 USD...

If the $3,750 is correct with Poulin's 17.5% buyers premium that would be $4,400. That would make me very happy.
10-01-2018, 11:19 AM
smle addict

looks like the real thing to me. I have one, also BB-prefixed serial number. Skennerton's book states, "in all, 50 No.5 rifles were ordered with the triggers mounted or hung from the body, converted from No.5 Mk1 models..." Somewhere here on the forum, someone suggested that number may have been as high as 150, but I cant confirm that. Cant really give you a value either, but I bought mine 7 years ago for 2K. Yours is the only the second one I've seen. Vey nice rifle you picked up!

Forgot to add: when I purchased mine, I used the "buy it now" feature on GB. It had posted for only a few hours when I jumped on it. So had it gone to bidding, who knows how much $$ it would have brought.
10-01-2018, 11:21 AM
capt14k

Quote:

Originally Posted by smle addict

looks like the real thing to me. I have one, also BB-prefixed serial number. Skennerton's book states, "in all, 50 No.5 rifles were ordered with the triggers mounted or hung from the body, converted from No.5 Mk1 models..." Somewhere here on the forum, someone suggested that number may have been as high as 150, but I cant confirm that. Cant really give you a value either, but I bought mine 7 years ago for 2K. Yours is the only the second one I've seen. Vey nice rifle you picked up!

Thank you. Yours wasn't the one in the Poulin auction last year that I linked is it? I figure whatever they got last year is probably the most recent value estimate. Just don't trust 100% that proxibid is correct. I like their estimated value of $5,500-$7,500 lol.
10-01-2018, 11:26 AM
smle addict

4 Attachment(s)

No, that wasn't mine, I edited my response a few minutes ago. Our messages must've been simultaneous!

Anyways, here are pics of mine.
10-01-2018, 11:29 AM
capt14k

Very nice. I was wondering exactly what Skennerton meant by the hung trigger.
10-01-2018, 06:47 PM
Hambone

That's a great find!
10-02-2018, 02:31 AM
Daan Kemp

No 5 Mk II!
10-02-2018, 09:22 AM
Promo

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt14k

Very nice. I was wondering exactly what Skennerton meant by the hung trigger.

This - trigger is not attached to trigger guard but to the body of the rifle. Particular rifle shown is btw serial "E6" (void of any other markings) and also from the Faris collection and according to Skennerton the Predecessor to the D5E 171/X/8 project. Bob Faris also owned BB 1427 rifle from the D5E 171/X/8 project.
10-02-2018, 09:24 AM
capt14k

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promo

This - trigger is not attached to trigger guard but to the body of the rifle. Particular rifle shown is btw serial "E6" (void of any other markings) and also from the Faris collection and according to Skennerton the Predecessor to the D5E 171/X/8 project. Bob Faris also owned BB 1427 rifle from the D5E 171/X/8 project.

Thank you for the info. I saw the picture of the attached trigger in the book, but always good to have additional info.
10-03-2018, 10:00 AM
Thunderbox

I have one as well.

BB86xx number range; same markings as the examples above. Its in mint apparently unused condition. BSA manufacture, appears to have been manufactured from scratch - at least no hint of a refinish around the trigger block.
10-03-2018, 11:19 PM
Surpmil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promo

This - trigger is not attached to trigger guard but to the body of the rifle. Particular rifle shown is btw serial "E6" (void of any other markings) and also from the Faris collection and according to Skennerton the Predecessor to the D5E 171/X/8 project. Bob Faris also owned BB 1427 rifle from the D5E 171/X/8 project.

It would make sense that this was the earlier version as the concave radius left around the edge of the "gusset" would add more weight than the 90° corner on the later example shown on the previous page.
Considering how weight was carved off the No.5 I can't help wondering why the central hole was not larger - or were they trying to stiffen the action as well?
And if not, why not use something much smaller like the subsequent Mk.2 trigger mounting block?
If the zero ever did wander, that "gusset" would probably have cured the problem!
10-05-2018, 06:22 AM
Promo

The OP here can share a picture of his trigger so we can compare if he has the same trigger as rifle E6.
10-05-2018, 08:51 AM
capt14k

Quote:

Originally Posted by Promo

The OP here can share a picture of his trigger so we can compare if he has the same trigger as rifle E6.

I will leave that to the new owner, who is also a member here. God Forbid I mar a screw, I would feel horrible. I don't think this one has been opened in a long time if ever.
10-06-2018, 06:26 AM
Thunderbox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surpmil

It would make sense that this was the earlier version as the concave radius left around the edge of the "gusset" would add more weight than the 90° corner on the later example shown on the previous page.
Considering how weight was carved off the No.5 I can't help wondering why the central hole was not larger - or were they trying to stiffen the action as well?
And if not, why not use something much smaller like the subsequent Mk.2 trigger mounting block?
If the zero ever did wander, that "gusset" would probably have cured the problem!

If these rifles were indeed intended to be trialled for some sort of grenade launching, then the very large gusset would make sense in that it would reduce the bending motion between action body and the butt socket - given that the butt is not in line with the bore. Not that the Enfield receiver ever had any such structural issue - I'm not aware of any reports of butt sockets fracturing or similar.

I wonder about the grenade launching, though, as you'd think that such a test bed rifle would have other features intended to provide a base for this type of weapons system. E.g. perhaps an enlarged front band to support the grenade sight (as on Indian rifles), or an receiver flat for the same purpose, or perhaps a plain barrel extension ahead of the foresight suitable for whichever grenade launcher they had in mind.

The impression I get when handling my own rifle is that it is merely a test of the MkII system, and an attempt to make the whole No5 rear forend a lot more robust and stable. Given that standard No5s have very little bearing surface with which to achieve the free-floating barrel, that gusset gives a big flat bearing surface for the forend faces to be clamped to. I'd wonder if these rifles were possibly a concept for the once-mooted general issue of the No5 to replace the No4.