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Hi all,
For the most numerous SMG ever made, manufacture information seems really rather sketchy....
Does anyone know exactly which countries actually manufactured them?
I'll start the list with the USSR!
China
Poland
North Korea
North Vietnam
Iran
Who else?
Years ago I saw a North Korean PPSH 41 that came back from the war as a trophy. My notes said three spoke wheel inside a 15mm circle stamp with Korean letters around the inside
circle. Under this stamp was 1950 than a five digit serial number. nothing marked on the wood, also without magazine
Romania
This is quite interesting about Iranian production: Iranian PPSh-41 Production During the Second World War | Silah Report
I can't find any information regarding Romania F10, any pointers welcome.
Mentioned briefly in this article below. I did see it mentioned elsewhere which I can't currently find.
ROMARM Small Arms Factories
Thanks F10, I've been hunting high and low for that information, as you say, it's only a passing reference, but it's the fist evidence I have found so far.
They manufactured them in Hungary also.
Thanks Brian, is there any definitive PPsh41 list out there on the interweb?
Not that I know of. Production is obviously limited to Communist Russia, China and Korea as well as some but not all former Eastern Bloc countries.
There is good old Wikipedia, of-course, but not everyone is a fan. Unless anyone can produce a better list, it is the best one that I know of.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
PPSh-41 - Wikipedia
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------
Some people probably call Yugoslavia's M49 a PPSH-41, personally I wouldn't.
M49 submachine gun - Wikipedia
Most WW 2 PPSh 41's that I examined had a mark just above the ejection port which was presumably a makers mark.
Also, a single mark that appeared to be a proof or inspectors mark beside it and, then a date and a serial number on the top of the receiver.
Never did find one with an identifiable mark to an armoury as most of them, so I understand, were assembled in small workshops by women.
I can see them being made in every satellite country of the Soviet Union due to the total simplicity of the arm.
The only problem with the PPSh 41 that was later rectified later in the war was the box magazine which was doubled in thickness for more strength.
You also needed a mag loader with the stick mag as they were an SOB to load without one past 10 to 12 rounds.
Many thanks for all the information guys, I have a PPsh41 project in the works and I am currently trawling for information.
I'm surprised that with millions of these guns made, the lack of detailed information is surprising.
The Soviet troops must have greatly valued the blistering rate of fire this simple and robust SMG was capable of.
The Germans seemed to have valued captured examples too.
I vaguely recall being somewhat intrigued by a 9mm converted German marked example years ago.
I was surprised when I read that each PPSH-41 had 2X drum mags matched and serial numbered to it because I had assumed that the Soviets designed it to use any PPSH-41 drum mag without issues.There doesn't seem to be any shortage of PPSH-41 drum mags available on the collector's market today.
Did the Soviets refurb or scrap all of their PPSH-41's in their possession, post WW2, or did some get put into Soviet post war storage in un-refurbished form?
I'm guessing a bit of both F10, the Russians had millions of them, so client states donations, second line duties, reserves etc.
I bet they still have thousands in store!
Re the drum mags, it seems there was a slight issue with tolerance manufacturing of both the magazine and the gun, not surprising when you consider the vast numbers made by semi skilled labour.
As an aside, I can always remember a story relayed in a BBC interview years ago by a Lancaster pilot who after being shot down and spending 2 years in various POW camps, was libirated by the Soviets.
He thought he would be taken to the rear and on home, but instead he was given a PPsh41 and spare magazine, Uncle Joe had other ideas!
The Croatian MP Jelen and Šokac P1 are copies of the PPSh41. The Jelen is a cool little bullet hose.
Wise Lite Arms and a few other manufactures made semi-auto PPSh41s here in the US. Most have an extended barrel and shroud. They are pretty reliable but the bolt is too light for the long barrel and they put a lot of smoke out the ejection port.
Also there was nice blued PPSh 41 with a nice stock presented by the Russians to the late Lord Inverchapel of Loch Elk who was the British
Ambassador to Russia from 1942 to 1946.
If you use some of the dirty Yugo ammo and with a rpm rate of anywhere between 800 to 1100 they all look like they are on fire at the ejection port.
I have photo's of one firing with 13 and 15 empties in the air at one time. Distance appears to be about 3 inches between cases.