full length sizing die and factory new cartridge cases

been a time since I set up a full length die. had to take it apart and clean the rust off. Still no idea why Lee claims their case lube causes no rust....

Trying to get it assembled, my method last time was a fired case inserted into the die on the shell holder, the mandrel inside and locking it in place when the die was closed. It worked well and all the cases came out the same.

Have a bag of ppu brass, and a lot of misshapen case mouths. So to go fix them up, the mandrel wont fit. Kill 3 cases by turning the necks inside the case, creepy but cute looking..

Noticed that a quick hit with the chamfer tool and the bullets seat almost perfectly as a friction fit in the mouth. just going to need a quick mouth expander jaunt, and all will be well,

is it common for brass to be almost on the right mouth diameter?

is the flaring die enough to smooth out a case mouth?

Are you lubing the inside of the necks as that stops galling hence the crushed cases been there and done that a few times I use Hornady One Shot spray chamfering the inside neck helps I always have a medium crimp as that way the neck tension is all the same round to round.

Is your Die one of the Lee 'Collet' style Dies? ... or is it a traditional Full-Length Sizing Die?

The PPU brass may be thicker, in the neck area, than your previous cases. This could cause dimensional problems with some Dies. Another possibility is that the 'distorted' case-mouths are hanging-up when you attempt to run them into a Sizing-Die.

Thicker brass can cause a cartridge-case to seize on the (expander-ball) stem as the case-mouth enters the neck-sizing area of the Die. Continued movement will collapse the case. (The stem can be polished and reduced in diameter. The case-mouth should be trimmed and de-burred).

With a 'Collet' Die, thicker case necks will likely result in the case-neck being fully-sized at an earlier point in the press-stroke. Continued movement of the press Ram would cause the case to collapse.

Try 'Backing-Off' your Die, one or two turns, and see how much of the case-neck is sized.

If your Die compresses the case-neck on a mandrel or the ball-stem, to the point where it "locks-up", continuing beyond this point will collapse the cartridge case.

Cartridge-case mouths, that are distorted, can easily be made 'round' with an awl.
Holding the 'problem' case with one hand, insert the awl into the case, locking the tip into the 'flash-hole'. Work and press the side of the awl outward, against the flattened-distorted brass, making it round.

Factory 'new' brass, like PPU, comes sized for use. Just 'true up' any distorted case mouths and de-burr, (then prime, charge with powder, and go to bullet seating Die).

ive only used PPU for the mauser.. so far ive only had to reload factory ammo that I shot.

emailed the idiots at LEE and they state ALL factory new brass comes sized .002 UNDER bullet diameter, and the mandrel is sized .001 under bullet diameter... so that the mandrel "cant fit into factory new brass".

but I have always seen on forums "simply run the factory new brass through the full length sizer to get the mouths correct"

I ran into a similar issue and applied two solutions so I don't know which did the trick. Neck size first with die touching shellholder and back one full turn and a touch of Imperial on the expander ball of your full size die every 5-6 rounds. Never thought of the awl trick ( :dunno: ), I used an undersized pilot from a trimmer clamped on a small vise and sorta press the case mouth round. The awl seems alot easier.

I use RCBS dies and don't bother with Lee. I size my new brass just like fired brass and there's no troubles or issues.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I use RCBS dies and don't bother with Lee. I size my new brass just like fired brass and there's no troubles or issues.

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I have no fired case, OR fully sized case to use to get my die set up, the technique I learned with LEE email support was to install the die body into my hand press. attach the shell holder, and adjust so the arm is in the correct position. Then insert a sized empty cartridge, or a fired empty cartridge into the shell holder and drop the resizing mandrel into the empty case and run it up into the die and use that to adjust the mandrel into the die body so the stupid thing doesn't bottom out early on the cartridge case and pop out.

I've had good luck with Lee Dies in .45 acp (carbide), 6.5X55mm Swedish Mauser, 8X50mm Lebel, 6.5X50 Arisaka, and (I use) a 7.5X55mm Swiss 'Collet-Die' to partially neck-size .30-40 Krag 'fired' cases.

I have stuff from various makers.
IMHO - No 'brand' is totally free of mistakes, with some calibers and on special order stuff.

Some military chambers have generous dimensions and were not made with Re-loading or Commercial Standards in mind. This makes Re-Loading Dies a challenge to manufacture!

Sometimes, you have to depart from the manufacturer's 'Instructions' to make ammo that will work and also give adequate cartridge-case life.

With 'bolt guns', Full Length Resizing usually 'over works' brass and 'throws away' the virtue of having 'fired' brass that is custom fitted to your rifle's chamber.

New brass usually comes F.L. Sized and ready for reloading. The case mouth will tension a projectile. Distorted case mouths are easily made right. They can be run slightly into a Die to just accept the 'expander ball'. IMHO - There is no need to run a new case fully into the F.L. Die.

Creativity and problem solving is part of the Fun!

p.s. I set the position of my 'decapping-pin, expander-ball & rod' by eye. I leave a bit of clearance to allow for variation in different makes of brass. (The decapping-pin just has to protrude enough to push out the spent primer).

BTW 'pocketshaver', what Mauser cartridge are you reloading?

Lyman and Hornady, for starters, also offer replacement decapping spindles with Tungsten Carbide expanders on them. These are usually supplied with two different lock-nut set-ups to suit the two commonest thread used by the other "majors' in this game.

I have several and the lack of "drag" and "squeal" is most gratifying. A touch of graphite powder will reduce wear and noise with conventional expanders; something to try whilst you save up for a carbide expander. Graphite AND a Carbide expander is almost too easy.

Pretty much the same "satisfaction" that comes with using Carbide sizing die sets. Not quite up to owning a personal set of TC FLS dies for rifle calibres, yet.... Though, having literally worn-out several "conventional" 308 Win FLS dies in my lifetime, maybe I should have bought a Carbide .308 die when I still had an income.

8x57 of course. only mauser I have.

there is some serious deformation on the case mouths, and its annoying.

"8X57 of Course ... " - That sounds patronizing.

My question was a fair one. Many people reloading for a Mauser rifle are probably reloading 6.5X55mm, 7X57mm, 7.65X53mm, 11mm, or numerous Mauser 'sporting rounds'.

'pocketshaver', you have been given good advice and suggestions.

Photos of your problem cases might help, but, I am rather certain proper solutions have already been given.

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Originally Posted by pocketshaver

there is some serious deformation on the case mouths, and its annoying.

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What I have done in the past with cases I wanted to save is...use a pair of needle nose pliers and run them inside the mouth, turn and that pops the cave in out. Then lube and run them into the dies to finish. I seldom have any issue after that. But again, RCBS dies so I don't run into set up problems you are describing...

I agree with BAR, done that with pliers or a suitable screwdriver many times. Resizing die does the rest.

Sometimes the handiest mouth-fixer is simply a loaded round, preferably one with a FMJ spitzer and a good crimp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

What I have done in the past with cases I wanted to save is...use a pair of needle nose pliers and run them inside the mouth, turn and that pops the cave in out. Then lube and run them into the dies to finish. I seldom have any issue after that. But again, RCBS dies so I don't run into set up problems you are describing...

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care to explain the RCBS die letter system? A, B, so forth? And do they have a 357 magnum ONLY carbide die set?

---------- Post added at 07:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 AM ----------

die set up will go a bit better. Found 10 rounds of loaded up cast bullets I still haven't tired out. I so hate the effects of working 7 days a week for 6 months at the turn of the year. Never had a chance to shoot what I had reloaded. 214 grain round nose lee karabiner does seem a feisty one.

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Originally Posted by pocketshaver

care to explain the RCBS die letter system? A, B, so forth

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Yes sir... RCBS stamped the top of their dies with a letter beginning in "A" in 1949 and ending with "P" in 1965. There after that used the last two digits of the year, 66, 67, 67 and so forth. I have not bought any new RCBS dies lately but all I have are dated either with a letter or two digits.

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Originally Posted by pocketshaver

do they have a 357 magnum ONLY carbide die set

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Not as far as I've ever seen. Even for .357 Maximum I would expect to use a .38 Spl/.357 Mag die set. I only use Carbide for pistol calibers now of course.

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

I've had good luck with Lee Dies in .45 acp (carbide), 6.5X55mm Swedish Mauser, 8X50mm Lebel, 6.5X50 Arisaka, and (I use) a 7.5X55mm Swiss 'Collet-Die' to partially neck-size .30-40 Krag 'fired' cases.

I have stuff from various makers.
IMHO - No 'brand' is totally free of mistakes, with some calibers and on special order stuff.

Some military chambers have generous dimensions and were not made with Re-loading or Commercial Standards in mind. This makes Re-Loading Dies a challenge to manufacture!

Sometimes, you have to depart from the manufacturer's 'Instructions' to make ammo that will work and also give adequate cartridge-case life.

With 'bolt guns', Full Length Resizing usually 'over works' brass and 'throws away' the virtue of having 'fired' brass that is custom fitted to your rifle's chamber.

New brass usually comes F.L. Sized and ready for reloading. The case mouth will tension a projectile. Distorted case mouths are easily made right. They can be run slightly into a Die to just accept the 'expander ball'. IMHO - There is no need to run a new case fully into the F.L. Die.

Creativity and problem solving is part of the Fun!

p.s. I set the position of my 'decapping-pin, expander-ball & rod' by eye. I leave a bit of clearance to allow for variation in different makes of brass. (The decapping-pin just has to protrude enough to push out the spent primer).

BTW 'pocketshaver', what Mauser cartridge are you reloading?

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I agree.
I have some LEE dies I love, like the .38/.357M, carbide ones. Best die I have. Smooth, perfect.
I don't like my couple Lees for 8x57 and 6.5x55, both collet dies. Difficult to set the collet tension in a way that is somehow constant.
RCBS is generally very good in my opinion, but I have some issues with the 7,63x53. No idea why, but that one makes me curse in ancient, forgotten languages...
7,62x54R, 7x57, 30-06...al wonderful. Still have to try the .303.
I have one Lyman for the .44 Magnum. Not sure if I like it. The direct comparison is with the Lee .38/.357 and there is no match.
More like the 9x21 Lee...
And I'm forgetting a few...
In the end, I have some good and some bad. RCBS is actually my favourite in general, but if all my dies were like the .38/.357 carbide from Lee...

im currently using a LEE multi caliber 38/357 magnum die set. I HATE IT for 357 use. cant get to do 2 cartridges in a row the same, for magnum cases. 38 its fine but I don't shoot much 38.

those older reloads were fun. recoil wasn't that bad. guess I held the gun differently. some chambering issues on half so I think I got work to do. but hey its life. Now I only wish I knew what load data I was using.through ear muffs it sounded like I was shooting my 357 with wadcutters.

Bad day in that I managed to shoot myself with a wadcutter. heard the muzzle report, heard it thwack the target, then heard and felt it thwack my chest, then plunk into the leaves at my feet. the front edge really expanded well, good sign of rifling impressions in it. doubled in size.

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Originally Posted by pocketshaver

I managed to shoot myself

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Took one in the inner thigh myself at a remote range in New Brunswick in about 1994. Shot a steel chicken at about 35yds and it was all pocked from high velocity FMJ .308 likely...bullet hit me mid inner thigh. Was lucky not to have gone down, I was well alone out there. Winter and heavy clothing saved me...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Took one in the inner thigh myself at a remote range in New Brunswick in about 1994. Shot a steel chicken at about 35yds and it was all pocked from high velocity FMJ .308 likely...bullet hit me mid inner thigh. Was lucky not to have gone down, I was well alone out there. Winter and heavy clothing saved me...

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got myself centered PERFECTLY in my chest about an inch above the bottom tip of sternum. woke me up a tad. loading some special cases tonight. I need the relaxing fun I guess. the weirdest thing is, when I saw my gun was FROZEN with the trigger and hammer half way back, I actually thought I blew the cyldiner