I just picked up a Luxemburg barreled action and upon closer inspection saw that the back of the receiver is bent down. Is there anyone who could assess if it is repairable, and perhaps repair it with the goal of it being shootable again?
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I just picked up a Luxemburg barreled action and upon closer inspection saw that the back of the receiver is bent down. Is there anyone who could assess if it is repairable, and perhaps repair it with the goal of it being shootable again?
Can you post a picture?
Attachment 117302
Don't know how this happened, but when i got this, it was out of the stock, and a trigger group form an Egyptian FN49 was bolted. It's almost as if someone really tightened the rear bolt and thus pulled the back of the receiver down, but that just seems unlikely . So maybe a malfunction, or something that caused the damage?
Can you get pics of the back of the bolt and the locking surfaces? It looks a lot like when somebody uses reloads that are way too hot in an SVT40 and the rear of the receiver gets bent from battering.
ETA: Could also be an out of battery detonation sending the bolt rearward. Typically seen on the Egyptian 49s but any seem to be susceptible. THe location of the bend would seem to suggest it took a real beating on the rear of the receiver face.
In your photo it looks like the steel is almost creased about 1/4 of the way below the rear cover tabs.
Also, my FN49 does not have multiple angles along the back. I would not trust it personally, because even if it is pressed back into form the steel would have some significant working fatigue. It might be more cost effective to buy another rifle if the lines superimposed accurately reflect the receiver condition.
Attachment 117303
Really...never heard of it. Now another thing to look for when examining a possible purchase.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadwood83
The material will be stretched regardless so trying to "Press" it back to true or straight will result in an excess of material and as described, a weak spot.
I've seen an FN49 which was fired without the recoil springs, it broke the back of the receiver off. It was re welded and has not been a problem since.Quote:
Originally Posted by waw44
It was new to me too. I went looking for more of the same as described by waw44, found SVT40 slamfires which mentioned FN49s and out of battery discharges, and that lead me to... fn49 out of battery - Google SearchQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Attachment 117317
Apparently not that uncommon. The extent of checks I did on my FN49 prior to firing the first time was "gas not closed all the way, everything moves freely, no missing parts, no corrosion, presence of oil on the rails, looks sweet" then I put in some PPU 8mm and ripped a mag (meaning fired all w/o incident). I expect that is most people's experience but now I think I need to give mine a much closer look.
@Lee Enfield:
With very careful setup it wouldn't be too hard to TIG but I'm not familiar with the method of manufacture. If the entire receiver was heat treated or hardened then with the weld you've created a big weak spot unless the owner you saw had access to an industrial furnace (or one of those new fancy $1-4k home furnaces as found on This Old Tony @ YT.) Also a TIG would require a total refinish. TIG without surgical prep (especially bluing and oil removal) nearly always results in weld porosity, and then you have a ticking time bomb.
Prior to any attempt at repair, the most important part will be knowing why this happened and addressing that. Without RCA and addressing the problem, waw44 may find himself right back at the same spot. It will be harder to see if the action had an OOB or slamfire. But if a previous owner had used heavy reloads trying to push the envelope, or perhaps put a magnum primer in a reload then I think we should be able to tell by the locking surfaces. It could be as simple as just buying some hot hunting loads with soft primers and beating the poor thing to death. The first Luxembourg rifles were delivered around 51 and the most widely available .30-06 at that point in time is likely M2 ball...
Either way, bright spots and mild smearing on the locking surfaces should show if it is an ammo issue. Since the Lux rifles were '06 it is less likely to be OOB since the '06 rifles had the FP stop. However waw44 mentioned an egyptian trigger group, so for all we know it may also have an egyptian bolt without FP block.
Thanks for the replies . The Egyptian trigger group is probably a red herring. I picked a box of parts few days ago and it had two full fn49 actions in there , out of stocks, one Lux and one Egyptian. The Egyptian trigger group was mated loosely to the Lux action, but I don’t think it was fired that way. The box also had an extra trigger group ,few extra bolt carriers , receiver covers , etc . The Egyptian looks good , but thei Lux has the issue . I’ll upload more pics shortly .
I wonder if it was battered because the recoil springs are out of spec, mushy?
Again, unknown. I paid $250 for a box of FN49 parts. These two actions were in that box with all the other stuff. Missing receiver end was disassembled. No history. Look at the history below.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Box of FN49 parts, junk or worth something? | Gunboards Forums
that bolt was moving way fast. Way too fast. Locking lugs look fine, no abnormal wear there except the impact marks from hitting the receiver really hard. You can tell that FN made the bolt very strong. Much stronger than the receiver.
Attachment 117332
I would not try and cut and weld this one. You can see the thinned sidewalls (red), the impact points (blue). Even if we pretend the rear of the receiver took no load, you would need a very skilled machinist/welder to rebuild the sidewalls, bring them back into spec, re-cut features wiped by the repair, then reattach the rear, x-ray inspect welds, re-harden entire receiver and verify again via x-ray that stress fractures and crystallization is not happening in the steel. Maybe you could have somebody machine a rear half, harden, temper, weld, x-ray, then temper/harden/temper/x-ray the unitized piece. Anyway, crazy expensive.
Attachment 117333
Bolt carrier was moving fast. Way fast. You can see the rear of the receiver and bolt carrier are made of similar steels, since they left each other's profiles as markings.
Attachment 117334
This looks a lot like OOB. Check for a two piece firing pin.
For reference, here are the results of multiple slamfires (4-6) and two OOB discharges on another FN49. The damage looks... identical.
Attachment 117335Attachment 117336
That FN49 was decommissioned and parted out. Another KB victim turned his into a lamp (sadly photobucket will not show images of said lamp, but it sounds neat?)
In both cases, the prognosis was the same as below. Two piece FP (Lux, for the Egyptian lamp it was a one-piece FP which became 2 pieces with age) with excessive protrusion and control only on the rear half.
Attachment 117337
It sounds like you have two rifles (in a box of parts?). If I were in your situation I would:
- Make a lamp or wall hanger out of the Luxembourg. Maybe weld something into the receiver to prevent live firing. I have no idea what you are into the two rifles, but unless you are really dedicated to reviving the Lux with ample application of cash (likely integer multiples of its working value), I just don't see it being safe.
- Take the Lux bolt, build the Egyptian, use one-piece FP from Egyptian in Lux bolt (assuming it has the FP stop), have a good FN smith verify headspacing and FP protrusion on newly built rifle and keep the Egyptian bolt in a cosmo bag tucked at the back of the safe (assuming it is numbers matching) to keep it all original. This will address the majority of any possible issues with shooting the Egyptian and having it KB. If the Egyptian needs a new barrel or headspace is way off, Liberty Tree Collectors had 8mm barrels for the FN49 in stock for a paltry $80 including gas system and FSB. Unless the barrel on the Egyptian is shot out, the recoil springs are likely fine once gas is adjusted so it *just* locks back on an empty mag. Properly tempered coil springs fatigue with cycles, and rarely much when left compressed.
That's just my two pennies. You could probably bend it back, and it would probably cycle and run. But is that worth the possibility of taking chunks of steel to the face/neck? More than that, is it worth somebody else taking chunks of steel to the face and neck while you know it might be structurally unsound?
ETA: Holy smokes, $400? If you can make a single working rifle out of that, you are in good shape. Make sure to examine the bolt carriers and select one which can actually actuate the firing pin stop.
For context on my welding talk: I build motorcycle frames and do engine swaps in my kitchen (bachelor life, hate the cold) where I TIG it all together. I trust my welds to not fail while I am on a 180lb minibike with a 30hp 300cc swap going at wholly irresponsible speeds. I would not trust my welding to fix this receiver.
Thanks deadwood! That was pretty useful. I already have an Egyptian FN49 and this was always a gamble. The same seller had a bin full of stocks, other parts and these FN parts. Yea, the whole thing was $400, which makes these FN parts the $250 portion of the deal. I'm pretty sure the stocks alone will get me my money back on ebay, so whatever comes out of this FN project, it will be gravy. I will run your analysis by Guy Snelen (if he is still in business) and see what he thinks. Supposedly he does FN/FAL work, but your logic looks solid. Oh well.. a Lux wall hanger it may be.
Remember, Lux is also a measurement of light :p (if you lamp it, please please please post photos. You have no idea how badly I want to see an Fn49 reading lamp.)Quote:
Originally Posted by waw44
I would be interested to hear what he says! After all, this is just the stuff I learned through schooling (opt eng. then mech eng.) and observation Guy may have a completely different opinion and I would love to hear it. Always looking for new things to learn.
I'll post an update.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadwood83
So, the rifle is with Guy Snelen at AMG. His analysis. It's gone. Not only bent, but also supposedly heated sometime in the past, and metal is no longer hard. The receiver can be bent easily. Barrel is also supposedly shot out.Quote:
Originally Posted by waw44
He is offering me some $ for the parts as payment on making the Egyptian FN operational. I'm bummed, yea, but I guess it was a long shot anyway.
At least now you know and not guessing. It could have been worse and you try to use something that turns out to be destructive...bites the hand...
I vaguely recall that therewere some "issues" with the 8mm Egyptian 49's; essentially with the absence of the striker block mechanism.
Back when FN-49's were just about being given away (late '60s, early '70s, "spare .30-06 Luxembourg / Belgian bolts were being swapped into 8mm models.
I only ever owned an ex-Belgian .30-06 model, but lusted in vain for one of the 7 x 57 specimens.
Then, I discovered FALs and REAL AR-10s......
I had one too and it was a tired one, doubled up on the range until I changed a couple parts. That was AFTER the real FNs. This was instead of another M1 at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
Lux is gone, parts used as payment for the Egyptian. Egyptian adjusted, tested, refinished, put in a nice Belgian stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
So I got 1, oh well, for about $200 after all fees and stuff added up.
Attachment 119427
It looks pretty good too.