Can anyone identify this sniper rifle?

[gwahlert]

Hi All,
This image shows the armourer Sgt of the Australian 2/5th Commando Coy at Balikpapan in 1945. I'm trying to identify the sniper rifle / scope he is holding.
The scope appears to be a WWI vsn Winchester - Can anyone confirm?
The rifle is a bit more puzzling. Due to the bolt handle I don't think it's an SMLE, but could it be a cut-down P14?

Glenn

Information

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[Paul S.]

I agree that it is a cut-down P-14 or possibly an M1917.


I recently saw a picture in a publication of a sniper from one of the Bns during Kokoda who had been a dingo hunter before the war. He was using his cut-down scoped dingo rifle (No1MkIII) as his service rifle. I can't remember where I saw it.

[trooper554877]

The appearance ( not a great photo) of the rear sight ears would probably confirm that it is a cut version of the P14 or M17. leaning towards P14 due to the "availability" of the No3Mk1T's. No front sight protectors as well could be a heavier profile than normal replacement barrel? All semantics as we where not there and the apparent lack of recording any of these things in factual form is irritating because we can no longer confirm or deny the existence and use-age of these anomalies.

Look forward to the book.

cheers
Ned

[m4carbine]

Any idea what the date of the picture is?

It looks like a cut down P14 or 1917, but Remington did make a sporting rifle that was based on the M1917, same action, sight ears cut off and same dog leg bolt.

I think it was a Model 54.

[Roger Payne]

Afraid I can't really add to the other posters. I would think it would be more likely to be a P'14 cut down than a M'17 or Rem sporter based on same, simply because of the time & location etc. Scope does look like an A5 or similar. Shame the photo's not a little crisper. Interesting though.

[Surpmil]

Any idea what the date of the picture is?

It looks like a cut down P14 or 1917, but Remington did make a sporting rifle that was based on the M1917, same action, sight ears cut off and same dog leg bolt.

I think it was a Model 54.

Remington Model 30 (Express). Damn good rifles, available from the early 20s to WWII. The handguard rules this out as being one probably.

Whoever made the rifle up was one of those people with initiative. I do believe they're the ones who win wars. I hope we can find out more out that chap and his rifle.

Scope is not an A5 or B4 IMO: too thick. Rings look like the type with one top screw to tighten; typical WWI era stuff. Could be an early German commercial scope that was imported to Oz before or after WWI, or a war souvenir reused.

Looks like there's a step in the ocular bell just where the taper changes to the parallel sides. My guess would be Aldis No4 in WWI overhead mounts. If that was so, it could be a proper WWI sniper rifle brought home by an Aussie and re-stocked. Or just the scope and mounts. Notice that the front base resembles the P14 overhead types. Or could be an Aldis No4 in a set of No1 HT mounts. As an armourer, those mounts should have been available to him; assuming he built the rifle.

I had a Goerz 4x a while back that was marked to a gunsmith in NSW from the 20s or 30s. Probably a WWI souvenir.

There were a few makers of scopes in Australia before or after the war it seems: Australian made vintage collectable rifle gun scopes sporting militaria WW2 ? | eBay (NB: one of those scopes is a Zeiss Zielklein without Zeiss markings)

The end of the tube looks a bit bent, so that is probably a piece of tubing added as a sun shade, from about level with his middle finger I'm guessing.

The comb of the butt is too high I think for that to be standard P14 stock, and it looks more like a SMLE or No4 buttplate than a P14 one. Notice the lack of the distinctive recurve at the bottom and the rather convex and apparently shiny surface.

Of course if he was an armourer and perhaps a civilian gunsmith as well, restocking a rifle would not be past him. The brass buttplate would be a better choice for the tropics too.

[Roger Payne]

Thanks Surpmil; you've made me look again at the photo, but more critically this time & I'm inclined to agree with you that it is probably a more conventional scope such as a Mod 18 or an aldis (you're right - too 'fat' for an A5 but I wonder if 'fat enough' for an aldis -- perhaps a Mod 18 most likely?). I also agree that there might well be a length of something over the objective end of the scope, thus increasing its apparent length quite considerably. There is also a rather blurred opacity just on top of the tube where I would expect a Mod 18/aldis range drum to be. Could it perhaps be 'just' a (highly) sporterised No3 T??

[bigduke6]

Remington Model 30 (Express). Damn good rifles, available from the early 20s to WWII. The handguard rules this out as being one probably.

Wonder if it was a F grade M30 or the scope was from one, in "Bolt Action Rifles" it says the scope was foreign made with special mounts ? maybe the handgaurd added.

[Surpmil]

Actually, looking again Roger, I'm wondering if the ocular housing is too short for an Aldis, it looks more PPCo. Aldis No4: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ss/Ross351.jpg

The front ring looks lower than a standard No3(T) fitting to me. Could be right for Lithgow No1 sniper low rings though?

The sling seems to come across the back of his left hand, and there's a reflection in the right place for the loop of a "rifle club" swivel on the front guard a la No4(T)

The backsight ears are definitely gone, at least mostly, so that should rule out a No3(T), in standard form.

[trooper554877]

I think we could be looking at it the wrong way.
I reckon it's something he has knocked up in the shed whilst having access to a few parts with nothing else to do for a few hours.
Could be a pattern 18 scope with and extension tube added, lithgow type mounts or cut down No3t mounts,
he has a grin on his face as if to say look what I made dad!!
May not even had been used by any troops in combat.
Just a red herring in the lineage of snipe rifles in Australian use!!!

Cheers
Ned