Question for Mr. Laidler

[Edward Horton]

Could you possibly find out what types of linseed oil were used during factory assembly, at your base workshop level and what was issued to the troops in the field to rub on their stocks.

The 1940 message gave approval for the troops to use raw linseed oil to individually apply to their Enfield stocks.

My main interest is what type of linseed oil was used during hot dipping at the factory and hot dipping at your base workshop level. Was it raw linseed oil, purified raw linseed oil or actual “boiled” linseed oil that had been heated and polymerizes to thicken and aid in drying and aid durability.

Did you have to thin or mix the linseed oil in your hot dip tanks with turpentine or other solvents or did you just keep adding more to the tank as the level dropped. In my books and manuals the only reference I can remember seeing is just the words “linseed oil” or “raw linseed oil” and never any reference to actual “boiled linseed oil” or "BLO"?

Most present day BLO or boiled linseed oil in the U.S. is not actually boiled and just contains raw linseed oil, resins, solvents and dryers that make it toxic and requiring rubber gloves to apply.

I assume the form of linseed you and the other Armourers used did not require the use of rubber gloves when applying due to toxicity of the linseed oil.

Also is there any printed material for this treatment (hot dipping) and care of stocks with any type of linseed oil, and do you know what A.C.I. 88 of 1940 contained or why it was canceled?

Thank you in advance
Ed Horton

Information

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[DanL96a1]

Ed,

In the EMER’s I have for the L42/L39’s it mentioned the following this I would be the “Hains” manual for this particular rifle:-

16A. To obtain a uniform colour, woodwork is to be treated with a stain mix from the following ingredients: -

4 oz Dye, solution, dark brown oil (H1 (b) / 6020-99-224-0037)
2 gal linseed oil, raw (H1 (a)/ 8010-99-942-7803)

Mix the dye with the linseed oil and heat to 100 0C, stirring while heating and then allow to cool. Remove old wood surface with coarse abrasive and finish with fine abrasive. Immerse the woodwork in the solution for one hour, remove and drain off over the tank and wipe off surplus. The stain may be applied to handgaurds and other small components with a pad of soft cloth

17. Linseed oil is to be worked well into the wood. If the woodwork appears dry the items may be soaked in linseed oil, for half an hour. After soaking allow draining off over the tank in cool dry air.

[Peter Laidler]

Good Morning Ed from a pretty cold with gusty snow Oxfordshire. Sorry about the delay but I'd never really looked into it. These comments relate to an earlier thread that I can't find but I'll get to the linseed oil bit soon..... I promise!

I have spoken to a couple of old Armourers about the ealier CHS queris but even the 'old' Armourers, who learned from their even older tutors, can only go back to the 20's.

Anyway, two of the oldies have given two answers. Both know about this and agree that it's true, there was an older spec but the .064 - 074- standard was brought in for two reasons. First because ammunition was coming from several plants and this was to cater for the variables. I can't quite see this because if that is so, then it's the ammunition plants that need to tighten up as opposed to the rifle CHS spec opening up.

The second was in order to standardise CHS across the whole .303" range. As the Maxim was wider, to cater for expansion, so the rifle was increased to this standard.

The point against this is that while they've done this for .303", they didn't go down this path for the 7.62mm rifles/LMG's GPMG's etc etc. which all have different specs to very close/tight for the L39's right up to the AI L96 sniper rifle to very loose for the red-hot minigun

Both seem pretty reasonable to me

[Edward Horton]

Mr. Laidler above was answering a question from another of my postings asking why the Enfield head space was changed from .072 to .074 in 1907.

I'm asking the linseed oil question because in all my British and Commonwealth manuals only raw linseed oil is mentioned.

In other postings the Armourers have stated that they were bare handed when working with this linseed oil which makes me believe even if BLO was applied at a later time it was actual real boiled linseed oil, non toxic without any chemical dryers, resins or solvents. (Just like our American Lin Speed oil finish we hand rubbed into the stock)

Applying the Lin-Speed Finish:

General application. Simply dip the tip of your index finger into the Lin-Speed and smear it over the wood. Rub the Lin-Speed around the piece until it feels as though the product has gone into the wood. Repeat this process until the piece is oiled all over with virtually none on the surface. The wood will glow and the grain comes alive even though there is virtually no Lin-Speed on the surface. Remember you are oiling the wood and not putting a finish "on" the wood. The wood and the Lin-Speed become one. That is why preparing the wood and using steel wool between applications is critical to a beautiful finish.

It has been said that a linseed oil finish has no substitute in producing a genuine oil finish. "GB" Lin-Speed is a laboratory perfection of linseed oil. "GB" Lin-Speed is not a concoction. It is in fact, linseed oil refined to the point that the oil acquires the admirable qualities of good body and rapid dry. Ordinary linseed oil never really dries. The "GB" Lin-Speed refinement process removes the non-drying linseed parts (called Foots).
Lin-Speed.com - Gunstock Finish & Care Oil for Valued Gunstocks New & Old

Below Artists painting linseed oils, left to right.

Pure raw refined linseed oil, actual real "boiled" linseed oil and a hybrid form of BLO with dryers, solvents and resins. (Please notice the three diffrent shades or colors)

[Parashooter]

Gosh, Ed, how did you ever miss finding Grumbacher "Stand Oil" in your research at the art supply shop?



Stand Oil

Polymerized linseed oil made by heating pure linseed oil to high temperatures in the absence of air. High-viscosity, non-yellowing. Intended for use with oil painting mediums, as well as diluted with conventional solvents. Improves fluidity of paint and assists in laying down (smoothing out) brush strokes. Slow drying and improves dry paint film flexibility. May be diluted with any conventional oil painting solvents.

Size: 2.5 fl oz or 74ml bottle
Transparent
Contains: linseed oil
566-2 UPC:014173356314

Other outfits may offer better pricing and useful quantities -



Gamblin Linseed Stand Oil 8oz bottle
Price: $8.39
Ships from and sold by FineArtStore.

[Edward Horton]

Parashooter

The stand oil was in another row over from the linseed oils and I never thought to even look at it, I mean who in their right mind would use "stand oil" on a Enfield stock when your looking for linseed oil.

I thought Van Gogh and Monet used "stand oil" to oil the legs on their paint stand easel to keep the legs from squeaking.

Thank you parashooter, I'm going to the craft store tomorrow and see if I can pick some up.

I checked the MSDS sheet:

PRODUCT NAME: STAND OIL
OTHER NAMES: STAND LINSEED OIL, POLYMERIZED LINSEED OIL, LINSEED VARNISH OIL

INGREDIENTS
CHEMICAL ENTITY: POLYMERIZED LINSEED OIL.
CAS NUMBER: 67746-08-1
PROPORTION: 100%

(100% pure linseed oil and NO harmful additives and it can be rubbed on bare handed)

Thank you again Parashooter where were you when I was testing the "other" linseed oils on a brand new butt stock?



The raw linseed oil would sink into the wood and completely disappear, the BLO would stay on the surface and dry shiny.