Sales of fake stamps or other services ....

[Badger]

The following multiple advertisements were removed from the Quartermaster Stores area.

NEW INSPECTION CARTOUCHES STAMPING FOR M1 GARAND STOCK
1 STOCK, $40 EACH.
THERE IS NO EXTRA COST FOR RETURN SHIPPING AND INSURANCE IN THE CONUS.
USE US PRIORITY MAIL OR UPS FOR SHIPPING. BE SURE TO PUT YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS IN WITH THE STOCK. SEND AN EMAIL AFTER SENDING THE STOCK. I WILL REPLY WHEN IT IS RECEIVED AND WHEN I SHIP IT BACK. INCLUDE THE RIFLE MANUFACTURER AND SERIAL NUMBER SO I CAN APPLY WHICH STAMPS GO WITH WHICH SERIAL NUMBERS.
THE TOTAL TURN A ROUND TIME WILL BE ABOUT TWO WEEKS.

The stamps were put on the rifles to show that 3 things had been done:
1. Checked for working condition
2. Fired with proof round and checked for damage
3. Accepted by the Ordnance Department

Why buy the reproduced inspection stamps and by the time you get done purchasing the right stamps it could cost you over $200.00 and then your stuck with that particular stamp set. Have it professionally done that you will be proud of with a minimal investment and take the risk out of damaging your stock.

I have been in the furniture making , refinishing and repair business for over 30 years. I am also a gun collector and have owned several vintage military firearms even longer. To me a gun stock is a fine piece of furniture. Whether your stock is new or vintage each stock has its own character and value to its owner.
All stamping is for reproduction only and in no way can be represented as original armory inspection proofs.

The member named deadshot was contacted by one of our moderators, Bill Hollinger, who sent him the following email:

On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Bill Hollinger @ Military Surplus Collectors Forums wrote:

Dear Sir, all the folks here at Milsurp.com truly appreciate your membership here and your interest in the hobby. However, in keeping with the true mission of Milsurp.com we feel that offering counterfeit stamping services does not meet that mission. Here at Milsurp.com we are dedicated to the preservation of military weapons not the reproduction of them. Although there are a number of our membership that have or start out with sporterized and or modified military weapons it is not our intent to sell, offer or allow to be offered any counterfeiting services in an attempt to resurrect them to a perceived state of originality. Therefore your ad for the stamping service has been removed.

Please feel free to post ads in the future but refrain from such ads as removed. Thank you very much for your membership and circumspect when placing ads. If you have any question in regards to posting ads, please do not hesitate to contact me or any of the staff here at Milsurp.com for clarification.

Regards

The member deadshot responded as follows:

From: deadshot
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: Posting for sale ads

KMA. You clowns can take me off all together

The member has been banned permanently from accessing the site and as I as I said to Bill Hollinger privately, who was concerned that he may have said something wrong, this individual contributed nothing to the site, either for its upkeep or in the form of participative interaction exchanging information with other collectors in any of the gun forums. His only purpose was to use the site for free to promote for profit, his stamping sevice that serves no other purpose that I can see, other than to potentially generate a market for fake collectibles at the expense of collectors.

The purpose of my posting is to make all our members aware of our position regarding the sales and promoting of products or services such as this, which most collectors would be unable to clearly distinguish them in any manner from original and authentic items. The sale of items that are clearly identifiable as reproductions is permitted.

Please contact me if you have any concerns ...

Regards,
Badger (Doug)

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[HKGuns]

What a clown. Your note was professional and well written. His response tells you all you need to know about him.

[ltcboy]

It is stuff like this that really want your blood to boil. You collect M1's, pay a lot of money for them, and now wonder if what you have if really legit. There was another story of a guy taking commercial "lunchbox" slides for the 1911 and forging either Singer and/or North American Arms slide. The lunch box slide had the correct patina and age to make it look legit. Crap like this is wrong. To actually advertise his services here is pretty ballsy.

Mike

[tmark]

In my opinion, the banned member engaged in the exploitation of legalized counterfeiting under the guise of the furniture industry for financial gain, primarily. Stamping furniture with letters, symbols, or whatever, is acceptable for purposes of ID, manufacturer, etc.

But, the wood on a rifle is not furniture. The wood on a rifle is called the stock. A rifle minus its stock is not called a rifle. Basic education lists the contents of a rifle as: barrel, action, and stock. The stock is not an addendum to the rifle; it is an integral part of the rifle. It is not furniture. One doesn't sit on it nor stores one's clothing in it nor serves meals on it nor sleeps on it.

Furniture may be made of wood but not all wood products are furniture.

To me, an aftermarket restamping of an original USGI stock with either original symbols or different symbols is akin to reprinting the numbers and President faces on paper money. The latter is definately illegal; the former is definetly unethical.

Resurfacing legal tender is an illegal act of counterfeiting, restamping cartouches is misrepresentation, and, therefore, is counterfeiting. But, is it illegal? Are there actual legislative laws prohibiting such behaviour concerning restamping firearms?

I concur with Badger and Bill on their decision to address the situation with the person in question and the resultant consequence.

By allowing the person in question to continue with his entrepreneur exploitation practice of restamping vintage firearms......let me put it this way.......OH WHAT A HARMFUL WEB WE WEAVE, WHEN WE PRACTICE TO DECEIVE.

[Rick B]

tmark,
that is the best I have heard it put yet. Thank you. Rick B

[Bill Hollinger]

I wasn't aware this had been brought into the open until now. I was quite taken aback by his reply to my email. Thanks to all for the support!

[RBruce]

"All stamping is for reproduction only and in no way can be represented as original armory inspection proofs". Who is going to enforce that?

We have all seen how effective his warning has been - many stocks offered as original, but with fake stampings.

I enquired about a stock recently that looked like the inspection stamp had been enhanced by tiny pin pricks around the perimeter. The seller was indignant, and forceful in his denial.

[RCS]

Can we post a list with the name and address of the people advertising their fake/repro cartouches

[Ramboueille]

Can we post a list with the name and address of the people advertising their fake/repro cartouches

Bob,

Probably better not to do that, let those who want the fake stuff look for it themselves and it creates a lot of bitterness with those attempting to justify their "reproduction" work. You've seen it plenty of times.

I think what was done here is enough to send the message.

[Bill Hollinger]

Charlie has done that on a number of occasions. Do a search or maybe Charlie will repost it.