First Impressions???

[Jim Nasium]

I gotta question for this bunch.... When someone hands you a new (to you) carbine, what is the process that you go thru to identify/classify it?
I think mine is this:
1. Look at mfgr on receiver
2. Adjustable rear sight?
2. Check out the stock-High/Low
3. Look for bbl lug
4. Look for mfgr on mag release -- does it match receiver mfgr?

Then it's just whatever crosses my mind (which is less and less these days)

I have a reason for asking these questions.... I nearly passed on a really nice one. My first impression was good, but not THAT good. Mag catch mfgr did not (I thought) match the receiver mfgr....

I am anxious to hear from you learned ones, and see if you have some kind of ritual that you adhere to for this process.

When it came to "brains", I thought they said "trains", and I asked for one with a whistle !!!

Jim Nasium aka Ronnie Fry

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[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Everyone has their own method of checking guns out. The more experience you have the more you look at in a shorter time frame. Is there a right or wrong way, I think not.

In a couple of minutes, you will know if it is something for you or to pass on .

I look at the receiver first, for the maker name and then serial number range. That gives me an idea as to what features I should be looking for.

Since I am already looking at the receiver I look down at the rear sight, recoil plate, bolt, then barrel, band barrel shadows if any, barrel markings (name,date, proofs, import marks) and front sight.
Then the stock, condition, cracks, high/low, markings on right side, rebuild markings, slingwell, grip.
Housing milled or pressed. While there the safety and mag catch markings.
Notice the overall finish look and wear to see if it is even or not.

If it then looks like something I might be interested in, for the asking price, I ask if I can break it down. Some guys don't like you to do that.

Even mixed guns, for the right price, can have parts to complete other projects.

[Tired Retired]

Ronnie,

I kinda agree with the above except the FIRST question I would add is WHY I am buying it. If I am considering it as a collector, then identifying the collector potential is the focus. I think Jim and you covered the collector steps. If I am buying it to use a a parts source, then those specific parts have to be present in the condition I need (regardless of anything else on the weapon).

If I am going to consider it as a shooter, then my priorities are totally different than what is outlined above. I think this is the shooter highlights:

Receiver and serial - if its a shooter thats a nice to have point. Yes, NPM make the best shooting receivers, but surprisingly I have two IBM's that I really enjoy. But I would inspect the receiver condition and it should not have alot of wear on the rails no matter what the manufacturer or the serial.

Muzzle wear and barrel condition - manufacture does not have to match receiver, just a quality name (I like Underwood barrel best) and a good crown

Condition of the sights - especially the front sight post - filed down?. I also prefer the Type II rear sights which have a beveled peep hole (I love Hemphill or a P.I.)

Trigger pull - creep, excessive pull?

Bolt - excessive wear, lug condition, but I like the round bolts for shooters (personal pref)

Slide - again wear, type V/VI which has the cuts to delay opening

Stock - I prefer a SA M-2 Walnut, but I will take a good birch if it is solid and has a good pattern

Recoil Plate - I prefer a WWII plate, not the post war cast, look for excessive wear on the bottom lip of the plate.

Trigger housing - I like either the Type IV or V housings, but any housing should be tight - but not too tight. The only issue I have with a very loose housing is that when you go to pull the trigger, you also have some extra movement transferred to the housing (untill the housing stops moving) as you pull. Just don't like the feel.

Barrel band - of course the Type III, but it should be tight on both the barrel and the bull nose.

Sear - for a shooter I like the M-2 sears since they GENERALLY help with the trigger pull.

Other - Inspect the gas pistol and nut for looseness or excessive staking (taken apart too many times)

Hammer - type III or later.

Other factors such as finish and overall condition weigh into the decision. I have an IBM Racker I got from CMP which has some rust pits on the exterior of the barrel, but it has a MW 1 1/2, the headspace is at 1.294", the front sight post doesn't look touched and it shoots far tighter than my eyes can see at a 100 yards. Even though it has the original barrel and housing, it will never make the cut as a collector gun. Its a damn fine work gun - and it is not for sale!

Just my two cents on to answer your question's other side of the coin ...

[painter777]

Other - Inspect the gas pistol and nut for looseness or excessive staking (taken apart too many times)

T-R,
Very good point here.
I spent some time on a Rock Ola barreled receiver this past weekend. Planning a rebuild and noticed the gas piston was stuck. Quick fix with a magnet and penetrating oil cured that. Remembering guys saying just shoot it to cure a stuck piston crossed my mind. Sure enough I noticed the gas piston nut was almost completely threaded back out. It was just hanging on by a few threads. A few turns just with my fingers and it came out. This one is a CMP carbine I bought from a friend who got it from the CMP.
He hadn't messed with it at all. Thoughts of shooting it to loosen that stuck piston with that nut that loose raised the hair on the back of my neck.
Had it been a collector grade that I wouldn't have been messing with, I'm not sure I'd of caught it.

No matter how you go about sizing up a carbine or any rifle for that matter, remember to look over any issues that may lead to mishaps. If you doubt your own experience have a competent gunsmith look it over. Don't take anything for granted. I often think of the pictures posted by BrianQ showing the bolts with the cracked or torn off right bolt lugs. Great example of only part of what can happen.

Shoot Safe,
Charlie-painter777

[Jim Nasium]

Thanks for the input guys.... I think we are all about the same with priorities... What to check at first.
Below is how I nearly screwed this one up.... Standard Products... Nice stock, hi-wood, flip sight that looked correct. No lug... Then I turned it over and looked at the mag catch... Still pretty dirty, all I saw was a "W", and I immediately thought "mixmaster". Attachment 16528

WRONG !!!

I went ahead and bought it... thinking it was a mixmaster.... When I got it home and disassembled it, I was most pleasantly surprised... EVERY part is Standard Products... right from the book. And it's been that way for many years..... The oil on the bolt/firing pin and mag/safety was GLUE!! Noboby had messed with this little baby!!
I'd rather be lucky than good any day... It's a real beaut !!

Ronnie aka Jim Nasium