No 4 1/2 and 1/3's

[limpetmine]

Given that there were about 350,000 1's and 1*'s converted to /2's and /3's,
can someone provide insight to the following question-Are the percentages of rifles converted similar to the percentages origionally made in the 40's, or was a preference given to British rifles to be converted? Are there any records which may indicate how many of what manufacturer were converted?
Thanks in advance-an interesting side trip on the Enfield road......

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

Good question Limpet and I know a bit about this. I'm going to write a lengthy article about the conversion process that I learned from an old Fazakerley factory manager, alas now dead. Hold on to your horses as it's quite interesting albeit a bit anorak-ish

[limpetmine]

Great, I look forward to reading your work. Some more observations and questions to ponder, then, too:
Latest /2 /3 conversion I've seen is a '56. Were any done in '57 and if so how many?
Earliest conversion? Did the program start in 50 or were any one-off's produced in '49?
I've noticed three main types of restriking:
The complete mill off, with pantograph etching;
The strike through and pantograph etching new info to one side(usually the right)
The "addition", where the /3 is added to the right of the existing, the * crossed thru.
Any clue as to why the three types of marks were used? I should sort my reciever pictures and see if there are any trends developing
Thanks again,

[jmoore]

Learned a bit o' new slang/terminology here .... anorak

[Lance]

Well you guys beat me to it. I was compiling a collection of 1/2 and 1/3's and managed to get a "complete set" looking at different original makers of the rifle's. I was also close to having them all have different conversions years, but alas I have been unable to find a 1949, 50, or 57 converted BSA or Savage Mk 1/2.

From what you can observe Fazakerly started removing all receiver wall markings in 1954, previous to that they just canceled them with an electric pencil. Also of interest is the amount of "new" parts installed, none have their original barrel, and one rifle appears to be all 1954 made parts minus the receiver.

Attached are pic's of my 7 different girls with an extra LB 1/3 with both types of markings.

1951 conversion of a 1943 Fazakerly
1952 conversion of a 1944 Savage Mk I*
1953 conversion of a 1942 Savage Mk I
1953 conversion of a 1942 BSA (new s/n assigned)
1954 conversion of a 1941 LongBranch Mk I
1955 conversion of a 1944 Maltby
1956 conversion of a 1944 LongBranch Mk I*
1953 conversion of a 1944 LongBranch Mk I*

[Peter Laidler]

It's interesting that some of you think that the previous details have been linished out. This probably isn't the case as you'll see, the UK way of doing things is never to linish out but to bar through and over engrave. This is to ensure that the previous history is always available for Armourers to see. As an exampke, we can trace our No4's and Brens all the way from the 40's. Indeed, we can trace our Brens right through from Canadian Mk2's, made in 1943 all the way through conversion to Mk2/1, then to L4A3, then L4A5 right up to L4A8 in the late 70's. All because of bodyside markings.

I believe that if the previous marks were present and legible, they were simply barred out or added to. If they weren't visible, then they were re-engraved and/or a new number allocated. I COULD be wrong...............

[krinko]

What about the conversions done at BSA?
I have a 1954 Mk1/3 and a 1957 Mk 1/2 from BSA----both rifles absolutely "linished" out. Of course BSA did things their own way and it is assumed the rifles were done for foreign contracts, so not part of the system.

Lance, there are some '50 dated Fazakerley conversions out there...
-----krinko

[limpetmine]

Lance,
Sorry to have stole your thunder, it certainly wasn't my intent. You have a nice collection of conversions, to be envied. I'll try to post a few pictures of my meager collection soon. I have one that Mr. Laidler referenced, an FTR'd No. 4 Mk 1 later converted to Mk /2. I don't think there's any room left on the receiver wall! I've not seen a '57 conversion-do they they exist?
Lance, thanks again!
limpetmine

Well you guys beat me to it. I was compiling a collection of 1/2 and 1/3's and managed to get a "complete set" looking at different original makers of the rifle's. I was also close to having them all have different conversions years, but alas I have been unable to find a 1949, 50, or 57 converted BSA or Savage Mk 1/2.

From what you can observe Fazakerly started removing all receiver wall markings in 1954, previous to that they just canceled them with an electric pencil. Also of interest is the amount of "new" parts installed, none have their original barrel, and one rifle appears to be all 1954 made parts minus the receiver.

Attached are pic's of my 7 different girls with an extra LB 1/3 with both types of markings.

1951 conversion of a 1943 Fazakerly
1952 conversion of a 1944 Savage Mk I*
1953 conversion of a 1942 Savage Mk I
1953 conversion of a 1942 BSA (new s/n assigned)
1954 conversion of a 1941 LongBranch Mk I
1955 conversion of a 1944 Maltby
1956 conversion of a 1944 LongBranch Mk I*
1953 conversion of a 1944 LongBranch Mk I*

[krinko]

Here's one from the files----a Fazakerley 1958.
-----krinko

[Maxwell Smart]

Well you guys beat me to it. I was compiling a collection of 1/2 and 1/3's and managed to get a "complete set" looking at different original makers of the rifle's. I was also close to having them all have different conversions years, but alas I have been unable to find a 1949, 50, or 57 converted BSA or Savage Mk 1/2.

From what you can observe Fazakerly started removing all receiver wall markings in 1954, previous to that they just canceled them with an electric pencil. Also of interest is the amount of "new" parts installed, none have their original barrel, and one rifle appears to be all 1954 made parts minus the receiver.

Attached are pic's of my 7 different girls with an extra LB 1/3 with both types of markings.

1951 conversion of a 1943 Fazakerly
1952 conversion of a 1944 Savage Mk I*
1953 conversion of a 1942 Savage Mk I
1953 conversion of a 1942 BSA (new s/n assigned)
1954 conversion of a 1941 LongBranch Mk I
1955 conversion of a 1944 Maltby
1956 conversion of a 1944 LongBranch Mk I*
1953 conversion of a 1944 LongBranch Mk I*

Lance,

Nice collection!

On the photo of the /55 conversion, I see that the receiver wall has a sharp "stepped" edge at the front of the wider section at the bottom of the action -it is not a smooth curve back in towards the rear of the knox form area.

Do you know if this machining change was unique to late war Maltbys, or was done generally at all of the UK No4 plants at that time?

I have a BSA converted 1/2 with just such a "step", have been trying to establish where the original rifle may have been made.

Thanks

Tom