.22 Lee Enfield trainer rear sight..forgot what it is for: HELP!!!

[Warren]

I actually had a major brain f*rt and forgot what this sight is for. It's been sitting around here for a long time and time to start moving out some of the extra "fluff" that has been cluttering up the shed for years.
SO!! Can anyone enlighten me as the what the sight is for: other than a cadet .22 training rifle.
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Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Brian Dick]

7.62 Rifle L81A1 P-H Cadet Rifle

[Peter Laidler]

You were ALMOST right there Brian, but missed out one important word. The RUBBISH 7.62mm L81A1 P-H Cadet target rifle.

They made a big song and dance about introducing these rifles into Cadet shooting circles (and readily available to Regular Army shooting circles too if they wanted them) But, alas, Cadets had to give up their target No4's to get these L81's and the substantial 7.62mm ammo allocation. Regular target shooters didn't want the L81....... who wanted these when you already had a competitive L39 target rifle.

Shooting team coaches and others in the know were left asking '.............why can't we just have L39's, similar in every respect to the No4's that we know like the back of our hands already. We can swop over our sights, slings etc etc......... and on and on, but no!

I called in and questioned an old Training Warrant Officer at Banbury whom I knew well and asked him about all these L81's that were on charge and gathering dust in the main Armoury at XXXX. He confided in me and told me, in the few choice words that only Warrant officers are used to and said '.........I'll tell you the REAL reason or the load of old shxxe and waffle answer Sir.........., what one do you a) want or b) need?

The reason we keep them, even though they are never used, is that in THEORY and on PAPER, they ARE used, very often - in fact they're used on 5 weekends out of 4! They come with a most generous ammo allocation of 7.62mm ball, the same as our old and popular Bren and GPMG's guns. So all the ammo for these gets used for REAL training on the Brens and GPMG's.

I had to ask of course about who and how did the small units and schools do their target shooting. And guess what............? The L81 didn't feature! The School Cadets were still VERY competitive by borrowing the regular 7.62mm L39's or better still, using their old No4's. And as for .303" No4 ammo............. 'There's no need for someone of your rank to start questioning someone of my experience about ammo logistics. But we have sufficient for 10 years or so......... ' Good answer RSM!

[bigduke6]

start moving out some of the extra "fluff" that has been cluttering up the shed for years.

Just box it all up Warren and send it my way, and while your at it, throw a few No32 scopes in with rifles attached etc....

[muffett.2008]

Hey warren, while you are cleaning up, Please don't forget that information on Humphreys sights you promised me.
Oh, and don't worry about bigduke, I've allready organised the pantech to pickup those bits he's on about.

[Frederick303]

A question for Peter Laidler on these rifles.

I understand they were made from 1983 to 1990. I also understand that a subset of these rifles had problems with heat treatment of the action body. That is why the L81A2 came about.

But what i have never read, is how well did they shoot Green spot out to say 600 yards?

Was there a problem with the Epoxy bedding? I ask as the official spec I saw on these indicates they used Devcon F aluminum filled epoxy, which has been used for years in the US on 7.62 Match M1 and M14 rifles with no issues.

I am interested in building one, which is why I ask. I have a Parker Hale M84 MK II target action body to use, as well as most of the other bits. I am wondering what issues I should be aware of.

[Peter Laidler]

I don't think that anyone has an old EMER left for these L81 monstrosities any more but I'll ask. I don't think that the L81 and M84 bodies were the same either as the 81 wasn't machined for a magazine. I seem to remember that the body was drilled on the breeching up rings for a telescope mount but my views regarding mounting a telescope pad on a thin receiver ring are well known.

\If you need more info on them, Brian at BDL has a couple(?) of the user handbooks and Fultons have a couple of the rifles. As I said earlier, the scoped version came top in the accuracy part of the 80's sniper rifle trials. Accuracy was good. Maintainability was rubbish.

Another point that I seem to remember being discussed at length during the period was the fact that while they came with a cheap and nasty abortion of an iron sight, originally, there wasn't even a P-H MoA type sight that would fit. Believe it or not, the optional unit-buy sight that was suggested would foul the opening and closing of the bolt..........

[Buccaneer]

I don't think that anyone has an old EMER left for these L81 monstrosities any more but I'll ask. I don't think that the L81 and M84 bodies were the same either as the 81 wasn't machined for a magazine. I seem to remember that the body was drilled on the breeching up rings for a telescope mount but my views regarding mounting a telescope pad on a thin receiver ring are well known.

I think it is fairly obvious that Peter does not like the L81 rifle so I thought that for all of you out there in forum land who don't know what he is on about I have posted a few pictures.
The sight mentioned at the begining of this thread is fitted to this rifle, also note the rather novel and simple way of adjusting the length of the butt simply by adding or removing spacers, remember this was designed to be used by cadets who as we know come in many shapes and sizes, a poorly fitting rifle that kicks a cadet every time he or she pulls the trigger could put them off shooting for life !!!!
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[Peter Laidler]

I didn't know anyone owned an ex MoD L81 rifle! Just remind me and the others Buccaneer. Was I right in saying that the L81 body isn't machined for a magazine? Or was it just blocked off to prevent magazine loading?

You can see why those Cadet Forces that did a lot of shooting just used their local TA or regular unit L39's! They already knew them intimately because they'd been using No4's since the 50's AND even when the No4's were withdrawn, they still had the MoA P-H backsights to use on the L39's

[Buccaneer]

I didn't know anyone owned an ex MoD L81 rifle! Just remind me and the others Buccaneer. Was I right in saying that the L81 body isn't machined for a magazine? Or was it just blocked off to prevent magazine loading?

You are quite right Peter the body is not machined for a magazine, the floor of the body is the loading platform.