Characteristics of the 303 ammunition used in No4(T)'s? -and matching it?

[Brown Dog]

I've trawled through the board for this info as best I can; I'm sure it'll already be here, but I can't spot it. Grateful if someone could either point me towards a relevant existing thread, or answer the following 2 questions (you'll realise I'm a Lee Enfield new boy !):

Characteristics of issue ammo:
Out of a No4, what was the bullet weight, design (incl BC) and nominal muzzle velocity?

Reloading to reproduce the characteristics of issue ammo:
Which commercially available bullet most closely matches the bullet in the issue round?
Is there a recommended 'standard repro load'? (hopefully based on N140 as I have a few tubs on hand!).

Many thanks!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Mk VII]

The Mk.7 bullet was a flat-based 174gn compound type, with, at various times, a GM, GMCS or CN envelope. Nominal mv was 2440 fps, propellant could have been cordite or NC. There is no identical commercial equivalent currently made. Most commercial producers use a BT bullet, which may not set up properly in worn bores. FNM of Portugal make a FB bullet, though it weighs about 185gns.

[Brown Dog]

Thanks. If nothing identical, is there a recommended 'best approximation' bullet?

[jmoore]

I like the Sierra 180gr pointed soft point bullet, "Pro-Hunter" line. No.2310.

Pretty close match out to 600-650yds. At 700 it's off a little, maybe a couple of MOA. That's as far as I've used it.

[vintage hunter]

The other alternative would be to locate some of the crappy Pakistani surplus stuff that pops up from time to time and salvage the projo's. I use the cordite too but its a pain getting it into a new case when you have carpal tunnel in both hands................

[gunner]

I shoot a 180grs S&B FMJBT bullet with 37.8grs of N140 OAL is 77.8mm. Out of my "T" it gives a 5 rounds grouping of 27mm at 100m and as i shoot it at saturday a 80mm grouping at 300m. I tried it with a 174grs PRVI bullet but the best i got was a 53mm grouping at 100m.

[Patrick Chadwick]

... flat-base bullets!

I tried it with a 174grs PRVI bullet but the best i got was a 53mm grouping at 100m.

No great surprise Ulrich. The theoretical external ballistic advantage of the boat-tail at long ranges is swamped by the internal ballistic disadvantage if you are shooting at 100 meters. I have a very late No 4 MK 2, pretty well mint until I used it, so quite definitely not a worn bore or throat, and the flat-base 174 gn bullets still fly better than the boat-tails of the same weight.

Patrick

[gunner]

Thats a point, Patrick and it seems to me that the bullet weight must fit to the rifling of the bore. Sounds stupid but i made the experience that my 2-groovers only like the heavier bullets. No go with 150grs. bullets like i load for a friend who has a 4-groover LE. What are your thaughts on that?

[Brown Dog]

Thanks for the feedback, must say that as a newcomer to LEs , I'm pretty open-jawed to find that no one's manufacturing 'old-style' 303 bullets for them.

Gunner; thanks for the S&B load

.
No great surprise Ulrich. The theoretical external ballistic advantage of the boat-tail at long ranges is swamped by the internal ballistic disadvantage if you are shooting at 100 meters. I have a very late No 4 MK 2, pretty well mint until I used it, so quite definitely not a worn bore or throat, and the flat-base 174 gn bullets still fly better than the boat-tails of the same weight.

Bit lost by this post - the successful S&B load described is also boat-tail. Have I misunderstood?

[vintage hunter]

The old Herters company did make 174gr bullets that were pretty much identical to the profile of the mk.VII bullet but unfortunately they've long been belly up. The Sierra 180gr Pro-Hunter is as close as you can get now. Don't be put off by the thing about LE's not shooting BT bullets very well, there's nothing written in stone saying they won't, all rifles are different and the only way to know is to try it. Some will, some won't. I have an Indian ''T'' with considerable muzzle wear that will shoot 1'' groups @ 100yds using Hornady 174gr BTHP's and it stays MOA to 300yds, the farrest I've shot it to date. On the other hand I also have a clone ''T'' made up on a Long Branch with a 2 groove barrel that does'nt like any bullet over 150gr, flat base or boattail, it's at it's best with Hornady 150gr bullets and IMR 4064 powder, it gives the original ''T'' a run for it's money. I think what Patrick is saying is that until you get past 500yds or so the BT bullet has no advantage over the flat base bullet.