Pattern 14 and M1917 for refurbishment

[Kiwi]

Hi Guys

Well, a year after purchasing my first cut-down stocked Pattern 14 (which turned out to be a real mixture of parts and a stuffed barrel) I've gone and bought another Pattern 14 with a much better barrel and at the same time got my hands on a M1917. Both new additions are Eddystone manufactured and have had their stocks re-worked.

The Pattern 1914 is predominately Eddystone marked, except for the rear sight which is just stamped 'W' so I'm assuming its a part of a M1917 right? Seeing as I'll never find the original rear sight, what do you guys think should be the appropriate (i.e most authentic) rear sight to replace the Winchester marked sight, should I use a M1917 'E' marked sight as it's come from the right factory, or should I be looking for another Pattern 1914 sight that will of course have an odd serial number but at least was manufactured for the Pattern 1914?

The M1917 is pretty much Eddystone marked, but some of the internals of the bolt aren't unfortunately.

The stocks for both rifles are going to be a pain to get a hold of given that I'm in New Zealand and either most people in the US don't ship stuff like stocks to NZ or have a US$100 limit my options are somewhat limited. The M1917 is probably only about 10cm (4 inches) short, but it may as well be cut right back past as a new stock would be required to make everything work. Do you guys think that a Boyds stock would be the way to go to try and get an authentic looking rifle (are they frowned upon by purists?), or should I try and find a way to get an original stock out of the US.

I'll post some pictures over the weekend to show you what I'm working with. The Pattern 1914has a Maori carving all down one side of it, which is certainly a point of difference, but not how it would have left the factory I suspect.

Anyway, I would really appreciate your thoughts on what's the best way to go about restoring my new additions to the most authentic possible given the limitations of living in NZ, but having all the parts I need pretty much locked up in the US.

Cheers, Andrew.

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[jmoore]

Photos will definitely help us help you!

Parts aren't hugely common anywhere, at least in good shape.

Haven't been a military style Boyd's stock for these, but their other stocks are serviceable, just not spot on in appearance. Close, but....Mmmm, well, I think for shooting purposes they're fine.

[jamie5070]

Kiwi where are you located? I'm in arizona. Somewhere I have two eddystone p-14 sight ladders that came in a mixed batch of parts. I'm not sure what the cost would be or the legallity of shipping any part out of the country.
Let me know if you want one. I'd let it go for shipping and packaging.
john

[jmoore]

Kiwi where are you located?

Kiwi is in New Zealand. In y'all decide to do some swapping, just send him a PM.

[jamie5070]

I read that and it just didn't sink in for some reason. It may be a moot point as I think it maybe very hard to send the part out of the U.S.
john

[Kiwi]

Ok, here's what I have to work with...

One thing that has puzzled me is the variation in size of the rear sight. Both the M1917 and Pattern 14 have the same length (approximately 54mm or I think about 2.1259 inches). There are no serial numbers on either sight so I am assuming that they are M1917 sights? On my other Pattern 14 manufactured by Remington however the rear sight measures 60mm or about 2.3621 inches. The serial number on that one matches the receiver so its the correct sight. I am assuming then that the difference in lengths would be due to the different ballistic performance of the 303 and 30-06 cartridges, i.e. a longer sight is needed for the less powerful 303.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Sorry to be a bit dense, but with that stock, why are you worrying about the letter stamped on the backsight?
Of course, someone is going to come up with the "part of it's history argument", and that stock could be a prize exhibit in a Bubba museum.

The serial number on that one matches the receiver so its the correct sight. I am assuming then that the difference in lengths would be due to the different ballistic performance of the 303 and 30-06 cartridges, i.e. a longer sight is needed for the less powerful 303.

Yessir! But unless you are firing original ammo (or ammo loaded to have the same exterior ballistics) it won't matter for practical shooting.

Patrick

[jmoore]

Yessir! But unless you are firing original ammo (or ammo loaded to have the same exterior ballistics) it won't matter for practical shooting. Patrick

IF the sights are correctly regulated (which isn't likely w/o a fore end) then I have found Model of 1917 sights spot on for regular old milsurp (US and foreign) M2 ball out to 600 yards. If you are on a metric range, then it's not as useful.

I have also found that these rifles shoot best with upwards fore end bedding pressure much like No.4 rifles. Short stocks give up a fair amount of accuracy, generally. (Don't rely on 100yd/m groups to tell, either!)

[S-A-M3]

Hi Kiwi, did you buy the P17 that was recently on TM? There is a difference in length between the P14 and P[M]17 sights just as you summise.Send me a PM, can help you out will parts etc.
Stuart.

[Col. Colt]

It appears that the two sight leafs are NOT the same length.

"The Pattern 14 backsight is 2.43" long and graduated from 200-1650 yards. The M1917 rear sight is 2.16" long and graduated from 200-1600 yards. The graduations are closer together on the M1917, for the flatter shooting .30'06 cartridge." I'm paraphrasing, but that is from the book (which I recommend) "British Enfield Rifles Vol. 4, Pattern 1914 and U.S. Model of 1917" by Charles R. Stratton. Publisher is North Cape Publications, Inc. He also mentions the serial numbers on the Pattern 14, but that won't change how it shoots. Apparently you are looking for an Enfield stock with "I E" on it, rather than just "E" as on the American versions. I'm sure the book would answer a lot of questions - and it shouldn't be difficult to get through Customs! CC