Winchester m97 & m1912 rebuild arsenals

[CapnJohn]

What arsenals rebuilt the Winchester M97 & 1912 trench and riot shotguns?

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[scosgt]

M97's were not formally rebuilt, although some may have been redone from time to time. At the end of WWII the 97 was declared "obsolete" and "removed" from inventory, although it is known that some were in service in VietNam!
There was a formal rebuild program for M12 riot and trench guns. RIA marks are fairly common on M12 stocks.

Hope this helps.

[Tom Doniphon]

In addition to RIA, there are the TE (Tooele) rebuilds and riot to trench conversions, and I've seen M12 stocks marked AAN (Anniston), RRAD (Red River Arsenal), and even WRA over RS. I'm sure some of the other arsenals like Raritan and Benecia also rebuilt shotguns.

There was also a rebuild program during WWII under which Winchester rebuilt shotguns. Many of the other shotgun manufacturers were also involved in this rebuilt program.

[scosgt]

I forgot the TE. I have seen a bunch of those.

[CapnJohn]

Thanks! I had a M97 in Vietnam circa 1964 along with a couple of other guys, maybe 4 total. We didn't pay much attention to them and used them for inhouse protection and not in the field. Had one come up recently for sale, parkerized, so it had been rebuilt, and was looking at it. Manufactured 1948-49 from the serial number, so far all correct. Where were they located on the stock?
A number of the Special Forces A teams we supported had them also. Some interesting stories came from those guys on their use.

[Tom Doniphon]

Most of the rebuild marks are found on the left side of the buttstock.

I doubt the gun you were looking at was made in 1948-49. I don't think there were any Model 97s acquired by the Military after mid WW2. If you are going by the published serial number tables available, most of those are wrong, and in some cases they are off by several years.

[CapnJohn]

Most of the rebuild marks are found on the left side of the buttstock.

I doubt the gun you were looking at was made in 1948-49. I don't think there were any Model 97s acquired by the Military after mid WW2. If you are going by the published serial number tables available, most of those are wrong, and in some cases they are off by several years.

Well, that's the serial number. The barrel date is 42. How 'bout left over barrels used up at a later date?
thanks!

[scosgt]

Most of the rebuild marks are found on the left side of the buttstock.

I doubt the gun you were looking at was made in 1948-49. I don't think there were any Model 97s acquired by the Military after mid WW2. If you are going by the published serial number tables available, most of those are wrong, and in some cases they are off by several years.

EXACTLY correct. And it is very doubtful the one you were looking at was a military rebuild. Most of the parked 97 trenchguns out there were done to cover up the extreme poor condition. And the Maadis book is totally wrong on serial numbers.

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

Well, that's the serial number. The barrel date is 42. How 'bout left over barrels used up at a later date?
thanks!

NO. The barrel date probably corresponds to the serial number (let me guess, around 950,000?) and they finished production in 1942. Winchester is not know to have made any 97 trenches of any flavor after WWII. They did make commercial trench guns between the wars, but not after, as far as anyone knows. There were just too many surplus shotguns around that no one wanted LOL.

---------- Post added at 10:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 PM ----------

Thanks! I had a M97 in Vietnam circa 1964 along with a couple of other guys, maybe 4 total. We didn't pay much attention to them and used them for inhouse protection and not in the field. Had one come up recently for sale, parkerized, so it had been rebuilt, and was looking at it. Manufactured 1948-49 from the serial number, so far all correct. Where were they located on the stock?
A number of the Special Forces A teams we supported had them also. Some interesting stories came from those guys on their use.

The 97 was officially not used in Nam, however MANY guys have reported using them and there are indeed pictures. Keep in mind that even though they were surplus at the end of the war, they existed in arsenals and National Guard Units and on ships and bases all over the world, so of course they never were able to pull them all in and get rid of them. Just like there are still Garands floating around, and they were taken out of service in what, 1957? And in Desert Storm there were many pictures of troops carrying .45 autos and M14's. But obviously neither of those was standard issue in 1991.

[CapnJohn]

The 97 was officially not used in Nam, however MANY guys have reported using them and there are indeed pictures.

Well, we had tommy guns, grease guns, Swedish K's, Danish Madsen's, Schmeisers, M2 carbines w/ M1 carbine folding stocks, French submachine guns and on one operation picked up a Czech submachine gun less than 2 months out of the factory. Literally truckloads were picked up from the 'Yards and returned for cleaning, storage. Even had a single shot crossbow with multiple arrows in the quiver!!
Doc Pena out of Qui Nhon got shot by an arrow and received a Purple Heart for that. Probably the first soldier since the Indian Wars to do so!!